Wind Speed & Heat: Is There a Constant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between wind speed and heat, particularly in the context of convection currents generated by heat sources like campfires or candles. Participants explore the underlying principles of buoyancy and fluid dynamics, seeking to understand if there is a constant or formula that describes this relationship.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether there is a known constant for the proportional relationship between wind speed and temperature in the context of convection currents.
  • Another participant clarifies that cold air moves in due to differences in density rather than the creation of a vacuum, drawing parallels to buoyancy effects seen in helium balloons.
  • A later reply seeks further clarification on how fans move air, indicating a lack of understanding of the mechanics involved.
  • One participant explains that fans push air through angled blades and notes that buoyancy effects are absent in zero gravity, affecting combustion processes.
  • Another participant suggests that while natural convection may provide insights, there is no simple relationship or formula that can be universally applied, although some semi-legitimate assumptions might yield a rough approximation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of air movement and the existence of a constant or formula related to wind speed and heat. The discussion remains unresolved regarding a definitive relationship or formula.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of consensus on the applicability of existing fluid dynamics principles and the assumptions that may be necessary to derive any potential relationships.

Stevenyzs
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I'm currently working on a project about wind speeds, and have come across a roadblock due to my limited knowledge... So I really hope you guys can help me out.
When you light a campfire or candle, the heat from the flames cause the air around it to rise, which leaves a "vacuum" for colder surrounding air to rush in towards the flame, causing convection currents.
I only know that the wind speed rising from the flame increases with the temperature of the fire. So here's the question, is there a known constant for this proportional relationship? Or is there an overall fluid dynamics formula for this question?
 
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Cold air rushes in, not because the hot air rises and leaves a "vacuum", but because of the difference in density between the hot and cold air. An example you might be more familiar with is a helium balloon, a lighter object moving upwards in more dense air. In both cases, the less dense hot air and the helium balloon, rise due to the forces resulting from bouyancy. The same reason wood floats in water.
Wiki, as usual, gives an explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy
 
256bits said:
Cold air rushes in, not because the hot air rises and leaves a "vacuum", but because of the difference in density between the hot and cold air. An example you might be more familiar with is a helium balloon, a lighter object moving upwards in more dense air. In both cases, the less dense hot air and the helium balloon, rise due to the forces resulting from bouyancy. The same reason wood floats in water.
Wiki, as usual, gives an explanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy
Oh, I see. Thanks for pointing it out :) Then what about fans? How do they move air? I read the explanation in wiki but I still don't understand...
 
Fans 'push' air , the blades are at a slight angle so push the air through.

A burning candle creates an area around the wick where gases are less dense so there is a buoyancy effect , which creates an upward flow.

In zero gravity there's no buoyancy effect so this does not happen. a candle burns much more slowly, the wick receiving new oxygen only by diffusion, through the gaseous combustion products, which hang around the wick.

IF we lived in a world where hot gases were more dense, then the candle flame and combustion gases would travel downwards, melting the candle, and making a mess...rather awkward...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you look up natural convection you may get an idea about the original question regarding describing the phenomena. The bottom line is that no, there isn't any simple relationship or formula, though you may be able to come up with something half-decent with a few semi-legitimate assumptions.
 

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