Windows 10 Upgrade Discussion: Compatibility and Features

[Chronos]

I would hold off for awhile, MS is still patching 10 and we consumers are beta testing it for them. Win 7 will be supported until 2020.

 

[enorbet]

ping HyperTechno -

For you and anyone else who does not have an optical drive in addition to a BIOS with no viable "Boot USB drive" option there is a lifesaver called PLOP bootloader. It can be installed to anything, even a floppy, and when engaged it appends boot code via a simple bootloader and provides a configurable menu selection including "Boot USB". Explanation can be found here ====> https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/intro.html

 

[enorbet]

Just a heads up - As you know MS has switched to a "free" upgrade format. Be sure to realize that nothing is free and something like the Facebook and Google business plan, the product in "free" is you. In the case of Windows 10 just be sure you know what you are allowing. If you expand the "Reasons We Share Personal Data" section of the EULA you will find this

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:

comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies;
protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone;
operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or
protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services - however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer's private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement.

Because the internet has deeply changed almost everything and one of those is the erosion of privacy in order to enter into the collaborative communities now possible, we all have to decide where we draw the line. EULAs by nature are so long and so often full of legalese that few of us bother to read them in full if at all. So hopefully this bit of info is not redundant to most and will help many decide exactly what they will sign up for, at least in this case. If this bothers you, staying with what you have will work for a few more years. Just know what you sign.

 

[TurtleMeister]

@enorbet

Is your quote from the Windows 10 EULA for the released version of Windows 10?

 

[enorbet]

See here ====> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx . Obviously things can change at anytime so be sure to read this section of anything you agree to if you have such concerns. Equally obvious is the underlying fact that Facebook, Google, etc. have been wildly successful at giveaways with such social hooks. Just to be informed is the best we can do since the Internet involves issues and situations that have literally never existed before in the history of mankind. One example is the huge disparity between the laws regarding postal mail and email. This is being invented on-the-fly and off-the-cuff in an entirely unprecedented manner. Safeguards are minimal and primarily up to the user.

 

[TurtleMeister]

Thanks for posting the link. So it's not just Windows 10. It's from the privacy policy that covers many Microsoft products and services. I would advise readers to read the full text in the link and not just the quote.

Update from my previous post. Looks like uninstalling the windows update KB3035583 has stopped the Windows 10 upgrade from executing. This is the first day since Aug 1 that it has not run. I've never installed a new windows OS right when it's released and I'm not going to start with Windows 10. From what I've been reading about it I think I'll stick with Windows 7 for as long as possible.

 

[HyperTechno]

ping HyperTechno -

For you and anyone else who does not have an optical drive in addition to a BIOS with no viable "Boot USB drive" option there is a lifesaver called PLOP bootloader. It can be installed to anything, even a floppy, and when engaged it appends boot code via a simple bootloader and provides a configurable menu selection including "Boot USB". Explanation can be found here ====> https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/intro.html

Thanks for your help... I'll look into it...

 

[sappho.poiesis]

I still don't know what to do :/

 

[StevieTNZ]

I still don't know what to do :/

You could upgrade, and if you find your games don't work revert back to your previous OS.

 

[sappho.poiesis]

You could upgrade, and if you find your games don't work revert back to your previous OS.

How do you do that? :O

 

[rcgldr]

I'm going to wait. Instead of the free upgrade, eventually I may buy Windows 10 Pro so that I can continue to multi-boot. Currently I'm multi-booting between Win XP (32 bit), Win XP X64 (64 bit), and Win 7 Pro (64 bit). I'm not sure if Windows 10 can run on my hardware, even though Windows 7 can. It's also not clear what benefit I would get from Windows 10 versus Windows 7, since my system is a desktop computer.

One thing I didn't like about Windows 7 Pro is it's default install changes the partition letters, renaming one of them to C:. To avoid this, I had to install Windows 7 Pro 64 bit from Windows XP X64 (since the Win 7 Pro 64 bit installer is also 64 bit) in order to be able specify an install partition without changing partition letters.

I've read about some issues with Windows 10 affecting game performance, but in most of the posts I've read, the performance issue was eventually resolved. I don't know if there are issues with other types of software like video rendering.

 

[DiracPool]

Summing up everything that's been said. Are windows 10 worth getting right now? or its better to give microsoft some time to fix the bugs etc.

I like this idea. If there's anything I hate it's having to update the learning curve every three years. I'd probably still be using Windows XP if they didn't stop supporting it. If it works, don't fix it

Same thing with Microsoft Word. It's a word processor, you type on it. As long as they have the cut and paste function, I'm happy. I used to type on the green monitors back in the day and use a dot-matrix printer. It doesn't take much to satisfy me. Why do I have to learn a new word processor every three years?

To be honest, though, I actually kind of like WIndows 8.1. I have an ASUS WIndows 7 laptop and a Samsung Windows 8.1. laptop, and I just recently found a sound driver on the Samsung that didn't put up that hearing warning sound every time you put the volume up over 42. It took me over a year to find this driver because I didn't want to use the standard Windows sound driver, which stinks. So, I'm finally comfortable with my setup and now this?

Plus, I read on their website that they plan to issue support for 8.1 through 2023? I'm set. Where's the compelling reason to upgrade? They really seem to be pushing it, though, every time I've logged in in the past week that little window in the lower right corner hasn't been dormant, it's been giving me a popup saying to get it while it's hot. Why are they so eager for this?

 

[enorbet]

Thanks for posting the link. So it's not just Windows 10. It's from the privacy policy that covers many Microsoft products and services. I would advise readers to read the full text in the link and not just the quote.

Update from my previous post. Looks like uninstalling the windows update KB3035583 has stopped the Windows 10 upgrade from executing. This is the first day since Aug 1 that it has not run. I've never installed a new windows OS right when it's released and I'm not going to start with Windows 10. From what I've been reading about it I think I'll stick with Windows 7 for as long as possible.

I could be wrong as I haven't monitored it's many and ongoing changes but it is my understanding that what I quoted (and more) did not exist at the time of Windows 7 release so is not in effect on that platform. AFAIK it came as a result of the shifting paradigm of revenue that favors ongoing data sales about users as opposed to a one-time fee to that user, especially since buyers of that data have deeper pockets and will basically never quit the need for demographics, etc.. Obviously it also serves other benefits like minimizing piracy.

It remains to be seen how much pressure will be brought to bear to effect this changeover but it is apparently easy to do. Witness the fact that other than some negotiable licensing difficulties with addressing large amounts of RAM, Win XP 64 was a rather excellent OpSys that got little play and essentially disappeared due to non support from abandonment. I don't know how binding and irreversible the commitment to Win 7 is or shall remain to be. It mightl be fun to watch.

 

[Aniket Patel]

I'm going to wait. Instead of the free upgrade, eventually I may buy Windows 10 Pro so that I can continue to multi-boot. Currently I'm multi-booting between Win XP (32 bit), Win XP X64 (64 bit), and Win 7 Pro (64 bit). I'm not sure if Windows 10 can run on my hardware, even though Windows 7 can. It's also not clear what benefit I would get from Windows 10 versus Windows 7, since my system is a desktop computer.

One thing I didn't like about Windows 7 Pro is it's default install changes the partition letters, renaming one of them to C:. To avoid this, I had to install Windows 7 Pro 64 bit from Windows XP X64 (since the Win 7 Pro 64 bit installer is also 64 bit) in order to be able specify an install partition without changing partition letters.

I've read about some issues with Windows 10 affecting game performance, but in most of the posts I've read, the performance issue was eventually resolved. I don't know if there are issues with other types of software like video rendering.

I've heard about the gaming performance rumors too, but believe me windows 10 will eventually boost up your gaming performance. I've been using windows 10 for around 2 weeks now, i have a medium range GPU. in windows 8.1, i played battlefield 4 on medium to high with some frame drops, but after windows 10 and directx12 I have a really smooth gameplay on high. Also windows 10 is very smooth, it runs fine. i haven't seen any big bugs yet. only the boot takes a bit more time but i think that's because i only have 7% HDD space left. Other than that, windows 10 is worth upgrading.

 

[Imager]

How do you do that? :O

Go to setting, update and security, select recovery. Here's a screen shot:

 

[Imager]

Aniket,

Here is a link about deleting the backup of the "old" version of Windows. I haven't tried it, so be careful!

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-old-automatic-pre-installation-backup-space-hog/

I've heard about the gaming performance rumors too, but believe me windows 10 will eventually boost up your gaming performance. I've been using windows 10 for around 2 weeks now, i have a medium range GPU. in windows 8.1, i played battlefield 4 on medium to high with some frame drops, but after windows 10 and directx12 I have a really smooth gameplay on high. Also windows 10 is very smooth, it runs fine. i haven't seen any big bugs yet. only the boot takes a bit more time but i think that's because i only have 7% HDD space left. Other than that, windows 10 is worth upgrading.

 

[OCR]

I haven't tried it, so be careful!

Oh my...I'm not sure I'd do that... Granted, windows old is rather sizable...

Remember, though...

Since it contains the files of an entire Windows installation, including user profiles and any personal files you might have stored within them...

Has Windows.old Ever Saved Your Bacon?

I think I'd "send" it to a big "stick", or some other drive, rather than deleting it ?

Also remember...

I'm a n00b ... lol

 

[HallsofIvy]

I got Windows 10 about four days ago. The download went easily (buy took about 2 hours). Using it, I didn't notice anything new about it except that the popup boxes for input, etc. looked very "primitive" (just basic line boxes). My "favorites" or "bookmarks" had been reversed in order which made it hard to find the ones I used regularly! I also found that several programs I had installed would not run. When I tried to reload them from the disks, I got an error message telling me that I did not have the authority to do that and should reenter as an "administrator". Since this is my own computer I was entered as "administrator" (I went to the "control panel" file to make sure of that). Finally, I just removed windows 10 and went back to my previous Windows.

When I told my daughter about this, she said "Never change to a new system until it is at least a year old!"

 

[Kostas Tzim]

I currently running windows 7, if i decide to get w10 should i go with "upgrade" or with a clean installation?

 

[rootone]

I went the upgrade path since if anything went badly wrong I still would have the clean install option.
In the event nothing strange did happen, all my apps etc were running fine and I didn't have to bother with re-installing any of them.
In fact a couple of graphic intensive apps which which had been running a bit 'clunky' seem to be running smoother after the upgrade.

 

[Kostas Tzim]

Oh thanks, what do you mean by: "I went the upgrade path since if anything went badly wrong I still would have the clean install option." ? do you mean you could go back to 7 and then clean install 10?

 

[rootone]

Yes. if you look back a few posts (#65) you will see that after 10 is installed it has automatically taken a full backup of your system, so you can return to as you were and go from there.
If you wanted to a complete install from scratch you would need to reformat a disk partition, (after having manually backed up important data of course), then install Win 10 fresh.
(I heard that MS have a disk image available which can be downloaded by people who would prefer to do that, it would be odd if they didn't provide for that option)

 

[StevieTNZ]

When I tried to reload them from the disks, I got an error message telling me that I did not have the authority to do that and should reenter as an "administrator". Since this is my own computer I was entered as "administrator" (I went to the "control panel" file to make sure of that).

Maybe you needed to run as administrator (i.e. right click > Run as administrator) -- even though logged in, in an administrator account?

 

[harborsparrow]

A word of caution. Microsoft recently installed an update (on Windows 8.1 at least) that puts a Windows 10 invitation in the system tray. If you do not want to upgrade to Window 10 yet, DO NOT request an upgrade using this icon. I did request the upgrade--just assuming it would allow me to decide when to install it. A few weeks went by and I got an email from Microsoft saying my upgrade was ready.

But then--it just started trying to upgrade whether I was ready or not, every time I started to get Windows updates. And I cannot allow that yet due to my work VPN (plus, I need more RAM). But now, I can't get any more Windows 8.1 updates; it offers only the Windows 10 upgrade instead.

This is evil. I have blogged about it here: http://harborsparrow.blogspot.com/2015/08/windows-10-is-trying-to-high-jack-my.html

So, be careful what you ask for. As I understand it, we have a year during which to get the "free" upgrade if we want it, so there should be no hurry. I'm still in shock at how this upgrade has taken over my machine and keeps on trying to install itself.

 

[HyperTechno]

I like this idea. If there's anything I hate it's having to update the learning curve every three years. I'd probably still be using Windows XP if they didn't stop supporting it. If it works, don't fix it

Same thing with Microsoft Word. It's a word processor, you type on it. As long as they have the cut and paste function, I'm happy. I used to type on the green monitors back in the day and use a dot-matrix printer. It doesn't take much to satisfy me. Why do I have to learn a new word processor every three years?

To be honest, though, I actually kind of like WIndows 8.1. I have an ASUS WIndows 7 laptop and a Samsung Windows 8.1. laptop, and I just recently found a sound driver on the Samsung that didn't put up that hearing warning sound every time you put the volume up over 42. It took me over a year to find this driver because I didn't want to use the standard Windows sound driver, which stinks. So, I'm finally comfortable with my setup and now this?

Plus, I read on their website that they plan to issue support for 8.1 through 2023? I'm set. Where's the compelling reason to upgrade? They really seem to be pushing it, though, every time I've logged in in the past week that little window in the lower right corner hasn't been dormant, it's been giving me a popup saying to get it while it's hot. Why are they so eager for this?

Well I very much agree with you. I upgraded to Win 10 From Win 8.1 and well I kind of liked it so much. Well the user interface is very pleasant and kind of familiar and easy to use and I was really surprised about it. But I had to revert back to Win 8.1... well I formatted Win 10 an had a fresh installation of win 8.1... because I found that Win 10 was really buggy and often crashed my PC... Stuck often and rebooted eventually.

This may be just in my installation but the OS troubled me and gave me a really bad time with it, which I had to admit that I could go much nicer with win 8.1 as so went back. Of course it's happy to hear that Microsoft will support it until 2023 so... I think I'll not miss much sticking with it.
In the mean time I'm thinking of Linux , especially Linux mint... I'll try that soon. I think I might switch to Linux after win 8.1.

 

[harborsparrow]

Well I very much agree with you. I upgraded to Win 10 From Win 8.1 and well I kind of liked it so much. Well the user interface is very pleasant and kind of familiar and easy to use and I was really surprised about it. But I had to revert back to Win 8.1...

I also loved Windows 8.1; it was fast, stable and well-behaved. I'm happy with the Windows 10 interface, but I hate that I cannot fully control when the updates decide to come down. This is a mistake on Microsoft's part. My older Dell laptop will sort of freeze sometimes; then I can be 99% certain that Windows is downloading a bunch of updates. I cope by going ahead and rebooting the laptop--which often takes extra minutes as the updates install themselves--but then the delays are alleviated. Very annoying behavior; in all previous versions of Windows, I could determine when they would download, or not. It's a serious loss of autonomy.

However, in defense of Windows 10, recent new updates just made the Start menu and other features even nicer to use, and it has finally settled down and become stable. I don't use the Windows 10 Start menu anyway; I use the StartIsBack third-party add-on, which makes my desktop act just about the same as Windows 7. The machine does boot quickly with Windows 10, and except for the uncontrollable Windows update issue, I am doing quite well with it. Hopefully, it will be the last upgrade in a long time. And it's nice to be able to run the latest and greatest on 5-year-old hardware (I just had to update my RAM to 8 Gb).

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Windows 10 has been seamless and easy. Easily their best OS since XP.

 

[sappho.poiesis]

My update never got to me :(

 

[Svein]

I have updated to Windows 10 in my standard way: Clone my latest working windows installation (Windows 8.1), make sure the clone runs exactly as the original (you now have multiboot of two versions of the same Windows), then upgrade one of them. Afterwards you can boot into the old windows if you are confused by Windows 10.

BTW: Windows 10 runs flawlessly for me. There were just two bugs (not in Windows, but related):

• Roland could not be bothered to update the driver for PC-50. I found a workaround on the 'net.
  
• One configuration file for a printer I do not have somehow got corrupted. I found a non-corrupted version in the Windows 7 installation and managed to insert it (not easy).

 

[HyperTechno]

I also loved Windows 8.1; it was fast, stable and well-behaved. I'm happy with the Windows 10 interface, but I hate that I cannot fully control when the updates decide to come down. This is a mistake on Microsoft's part. My older Dell laptop will sort of freeze sometimes; then I can be 99% certain that Windows is downloading a bunch of updates. I cope by going ahead and rebooting the laptop--which often takes extra minutes as the updates install themselves--but then the delays are alleviated. Very annoying behavior; in all previous versions of Windows, I could determine when they would download, or not. It's a serious loss of autonomy.

However, in defense of Windows 10, recent new updates just made the Start menu and other features even nicer to use, and it has finally settled down and become stable. I don't use the Windows 10 Start menu anyway; I use the StartIsBack third-party add-on, which makes my desktop act just about the same as Windows 7. The machine does boot quickly with Windows 10, and except for the uncontrollable Windows update issue, I am doing quite well with it. Hopefully, it will be the last upgrade in a long time. And it's nice to be able to run the latest and greatest on 5-year-old hardware (I just had to update my RAM to 8 Gb).

Sure, as you say, Win 10 interface is very pleasant and pretty and I don't have to complain about anything in on it except those really annoying crashes that occurred when I was running it. Reverting to Win 8 doesn't mean that I like Win 8 more than Win 10... but that was the only remedy for me... Well my PC too is dated and Win 8.1 definitely seems to be the LAST DESTINATION(WINDOWS) for my dear PC. But I'm glad to hear that you guys have had it stable.

 

[HyperTechno]

Windows 10 has been seamless and easy. Easily their best OS since XP.

Yeah... But based on my experience, you need better/powerful hardware for Windows 10 than Windows 8 to run it as fast as Windows 8...
Not a nice choice for an old PC...

 

[HyperTechno]

Hey,...how is that new web browser (EDGE)? ... What's best, Internet Explorer or the Edge? .. What do you like the most?

 

[cpscdave]

I found myself on almost a daily basis having some annoyance with Windows 8.1
Things just never worked they way they were supposed to.

Since upgrading to Windows 10 in August. I still have some annoyances but they occur maybe once a month instead of everyday.

They may have actually gotten it right for a change!

 

[jerromyjon]

They may have actually gotten it right for a change!

I was impressed as well! I even bought a windows phone! It certainly has some quirks but they also have ambitious plans integrating apps across platforms. I'd give it 9 out of 10 with a potential for 12! Apple being the 10...

 

[meBigGuy]

I have updated to Windows 10 in my standard way: Clone my latest working windows installation (Windows 8.1), make sure the clone runs exactly as the original (you now have multiboot of two versions of the same Windows), then upgrade one of them. Afterwards you can boot into the old windows if you are confused by Windows 10.

Can you describe your cloning methodology? Either here, or if you think it too off-topic, in a new thread.

Does cloning provide for shared data or executable?

 

[jerromyjon]

Does cloning provide for shared data or executable?

You can access all the files for either OS on either drive or partition but the executable files would likely need a separate installation from each OS with unique files.

 

[DaveC426913]

I found myself on almost a daily basis having some annoyance with Windows 8.1
Things just never worked they way they were supposed to.

Since upgrading to Windows 10 in August. I still have some annoyances but they occur maybe once a month instead of everyday.

They may have actually gotten it right for a change!

I recently bought a laptop with Windows 8.1 on it. It's really annoying for many reasons, not the least of which that it thinks my laptop is a tablet with a touchscreen. (Man, did I scrub my mouse cursor across the screen for the first week when it kept giving me 'helpful' advice about swiping from the edge/corner/butt).

It has been trying to get me to upgrade to 10 for weeks. Are you suggesting this would be good thing?

 

[jerromyjon]

It has been trying to get me to upgrade to 10 for weeks. Are you suggesting this would be good thing?

You would most likely be ecstatic with the results. The desktop is real again and you can put the "start page" back in the start button, If you like that "7" style interface.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Are you suggesting this would be good thing?

Windows 10 is the real deal. They got this one right.

 

[Svein]

Can you describe your cloning methodology? Either here, or if you think it too off-topic, in a new thread.

There are several tools available for this. I use Paragon Hard Disk Manager 15 Suite (https://www.paragon-software.com/home/hdm-personal/) since I am constantly fiddling with my disk setup.

 

[HyperTechno]

I found myself on almost a daily basis having some annoyance with Windows 8.1
Things just never worked they way they were supposed to.

Since upgrading to Windows 10 in August. I still have some annoyances but they occur maybe once a month instead of everyday.

They may have actually gotten it right for a change!

You may right. But for me, my windows 10 installation was a whole lot of troubles. It's nice , pretty, pleasant and all that... but I couldn't get a smooth ride at all. For some reason my windows 8.1 runs very smoothly and hasn't given me any problems ... ( besides 2 or 3 stucks a month)

 

[cpscdave]

It has been trying to get me to upgrade to 10 for weeks. Are you suggesting this would be good thing?

I as well was hesitant. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. But it seems like the feedback has been mostly positive chances are good you'll see an improvement. Plus less snot on the screen from swiping with your nose can't hurt either :)

 

[1oldman2]

Good news for anyone still hunting for the win10 upgrade, recently I installed an optional update on my win7 system that automatically sets you up and installs the win 10 upgrade without your knowledge. As I already run 10 on my other two machines I didn't want to loose my last 7 OS, this seems a little invasive and I got rid of the update to retain 7. After installing and using win 10 since its release I do think its very good and will get even better with time. The only advice I can give regarding the install is with the default settings, win10 is possibly the most prolific meta data mining tool going right now. If your concerned about your data security, change your default apps and do not associate A windows live account with it. Please understand I'm no C++ guru but these are just things I have picked up from playing around with the new OS and doing some reading on it. I would encourage everyone using win10 to read up on settings and defaults since there is a lot going on behind the scenes there. All in all though I love 10 almost as much as 7.

 

[rootone]

MS seem to have made it a tradition to release a generally good OS followed by one which is naff,or medioche at best.
This is the latest good one (Windows 9 did not exist, Windows 8 wasn't anything special, 7 was the last generally agreed 'good' upgrade.
Seems like this pattern is to be ended now though, Win 10 will be continually upgraded and so I hear, there are no plans for any major new version at all.
It's just 'Windows' from here onward.

 

[1oldman2]

MS seem to have made it a tradition to release a generally good OS followed by one which is naff,or medioche at best.
This is the latest good one (Windows 9 did not exist, Windows 8 wasn't anything special, 7 was the last generally agreed 'good' upgrade.
Seems like this pattern is to be ended now though, Win 10 will be continually upgraded and so I hear, there are no plans for any major new version at all.
It's just 'Windows' from here onward.

From everything I have read your right, from now on its upgrades for win10 and we won't ever see a win 11. leaves me wondering how long before they stop supporting the older OS's.

 

[DaveC426913]

It's just 'Windows' from here onward.

That seems unlikely. New versions of Windows are at least as much about marketing and promotion as they are about technical advancement.
Pretty hard to market something that isn't new.

 

[1oldman2]

That seems unlikely. New versions of Windows are at least as much about marketing and promotion as they are about technical advancement.
Pretty hard to market something that isn't new.

I have to agree with everything you said, especially the marketing angle. However when I have looked into 'whats next for windows" all I come across is 10 is designed for patches and upgrades rather than replacement. Of course my record for predicting the future is a little spotty and we will all have to wait and see what's around the bend. one more thought on the "marketing angle" is MS is going to make far more profit from the info-mining that 10 is capable of than they would likely make from developing and releasing a new OS after 10. But as they say money talks so profit will undoubtedly be the deciding factor in 10 VS. the next OS, time will tell and we the consumer are just along for the ride. :-)

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

First big update a few days ago. Haven't noticed anything different.

 

[1oldman2]

The two machines I run 10 on updated also, one was sleeping all night last night the other shut down, When I woke the sleeping one up this morning the usual cool seashore pic was replaced by an even cooler desert scene of the milkyway and they asked if I wanted to keep it,the other computer that was shut down didn't have this option but I expect it soon (not sure what the trigger was) at any rate the only other thing I noticed right off was it changed my default apps back to MS default. If anyone notices any other changes I would love to hear about it.

 

[rootone]

One thing I found very noticeable is much faster shutdown and startup times