Would You Kill Lizards Hanging Around Your House & Pooping?

[gleem]

Invasive or no, it may still play an important part in the ecosystem. For example, bats feast on mosquitos. If the mosquitos go, it's possible the bats go. Or perhaps the bats stay and find a new food source, crowding out some other insectivore. The trouble is, we don't know what is interlinked in the food web.

That is exactly the problem with many disastrous interventions in ecosystems, the parts of an ecosystem are so interconnected that you cannot see how one part affects another. You remove some insignificant creature or plant when you destroy a habitat which causes another creature to either perish or adapt causing a domino effect as other creatures must adapt in response. This can result in a sort of butterfly effect.

Did you know that bats are a critical factor in the pollination of mangos, bananas, and avocados so the elimination of some species will come back to haunt us.

Nuisance animals are usually human acclimated and are a nuisance for a reason. Their control is necessary but must be effective. Fix the leak instead of constantly bailing out the boat

NYC is using carbon monoxide to kill rats which is very effective but they will return because the root cause of their infestation is not addressed. You have rats, mice, and cockroaches because your place is easy pickings.

Home Depot sells rat traps and poison, use them, they do not need to have food in the store for the small amount of revenue that it generates. Bird seeds on the other hand can be easily made inaccessible to mice and rats.

 

[pinball1970]

That is exactly the problem with many disastrous interventions in ecosystems, the parts of an ecosystem are so interconnected that you cannot see how one part affects another. You remove some insignificant creature or plant when you destroy a habitat which causes another creature to either perish or adapt causing a domino effect as other creatures must adapt in response. This can result in a sort of butterfly effect.

Did you know that bats are a critical factor in the pollination of mangos, bananas, and avocados so the elimination of some species will come back to haunt us.

Nuisance animals are usually human acclimated and are a nuisance for a reason. Their control is necessary but must be effective. Fix the leak instead of constantly bailing out the boat

NYC is using carbon monoxide to kill rats which is very effective but they will return because the root cause of their infestation is not addressed. You have rats, mice, and cockroaches because your place is easy pickings.

Home Depot sells rat traps and poison, use them, they do not need to have food in the store for the small amount of revenue that it generates. Bird seeds on the other hand can be easily made inaccessible to mice and rats.

Disagree, we can risk it. If we can introduce a sterile version (mosquito )into the population that takes over and causes its own destruction then we should do it.
It is termed the world's "most dangerous animal" by the WHO for a reason.
Malaria, zica, Yellow fever. I'm with the biologist on this. Edit: https://www.who.int/health-topics/lymphatic-filariasis#tab=tab_1
@BillTre

 

[gleem]

Disagree,

With what? I don't advocate putting up with anything that is dangerous. It's them or us.

 

[pinball1970]

With what? I don't advocate putting up with anything that is dangerous. It's them or us.

Oops, it was Dave not you apologies.

Tampering with the eco system and removing a player is a risk, agreed.

In this case the numbers support annihilation of this animal in my opinion.
Why wait?
Death is one metric but there is also Ill, very ill, and near death removing billions of productive hours of those third world economies.

 

[DaveC426913]

Disagree, we can risk it. If we can introduce a sterile version (mosquito )into the population that takes over and causes its own destruction then we should do it.

That would collapse several branches of the ecosystem.

It is termed the world's "most dangerous animal" by the WHO for a reason.

The smart thing would be to address the disease, not the carrier.

 

[BillTre]

That would collapse several branches of the ecosystem.

How would this happen?
Several branches of the ecosystem?
What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[DaveC426913]

How would this happen?
Several branches of the ecosystem?
What exactly do you mean by this?

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

 

[BillTre]

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

From your own reference:

While bats eat mosquitoes, they are far more effective at locating, catching and eating insects other than mosquitoes.

The others eat some mosquitos, but I doubt they depend upon them. For one thing, mosquitos adults and larvae are seasonal.

In the Western hemisphere, Anopheles mosquito are invasive animals.
They either slipped into a vacant place in the food net or they displaced native organisms to make their living. Not likely to be something that something else DEPENDS upon for its living.

There are many species of mosquitos in many environments. The Anopheles mosquito is probably not a major component of the ecosystems in which they reside.
The Anopheles mosquito is not a keystone species whose presence stabilizes whole ecosystems.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

"Can" doesn't mean that they do that all the time. They likely have a varied diet.

 

[gleem]

There are many species of mosquitos

About 3500.

 

[pinball1970]

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

Some background Dave as I appreciate your response.

As I said, historically this animal has caused huge problems to human health and continues to do so.
If the planet climate baseline temperature continues to rise then it's habitat could move west and north.

A quick summary here. https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/stories/2019/world-deadliest-animal.html#:~:text=Spreading diseases like malaria, dengue,home and around the world.

This recently https://eu.thespectrum.com/story/ne...oes-reported-near-lake-mead-water/1419323001/

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mosquitoes-and-the-panama-canal/#:~:text=Of the tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

 

[BillTre]

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mosquitoes-and-the-panama-canal/#:~:text=Of the tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

Guess that's why Walter Reed has a hospital named after him.

 

[berkeman]

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mos...e tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

Guess that's why Walter Reed has a hospital named after him.

LOL, kind of ironic that they would name a hospital after him...

The workers and engineers still viewed miasma theory (‘bad air’), foul tropical soils, and direct contact with infected persons as the causes of the disease. This lack of knowledge of its entomological transmission route in fact resulted in many disastrous decisions facilitating the disease to spread[3]. For instance, hospital wards in which the afflicted were treated were routinely kept with wide open windows, meaning mosquitos were free to enter, feast upon infected inpatients, and disperse freely to blight the healthy. Even worse, potted plants brought in to improve aesthetics provided females with pools of standing water: a perfect habitat in which to lay their eggs. The French were effectively culturing the disease in the very rooms in which the sick were being treated!

It was US army physician Major Walter Reed who finally demonstrated unequivocally thatAedes aegypti was the vector of the virus, building on the ‘mosquito hypothesis’ proposed by Cuban scientist Carlos Finlay in 1881. This was achieved through an ethically questionable, but simple experiment[5]. A newly emerged A. aegypti mosquito was taken by Reed, allowed to feed on a suffering patient, and then transferred – voluntarily – to his friends and co-workers. When they became sick with Yellow Fever days later (but thankfully surviving) the breakthrough had been made[5]. The Americans now knew how to succeed where the French had failed.

 

[BillTre]

It was US army physician Major Walter Reed who finally demonstrated unequivocally thatAedes aegypti was the vector of the virus, building on the ‘mosquito hypothesis’ proposed by Cuban scientist Carlos Finlay in 1881. This was achieved through an ethically questionable, but simple experiment[5]. A newly emerged A. aegypti mosquito was taken by Reed, allowed to feed on a suffering patient, and then transferred – voluntarily – to his friends and co-workers. When they became sick with Yellow Fever days later (but thankfully surviving) the breakthrough had been made[5]. The Americans now knew how to succeed where the French had failed.

I view this as the guy was in the army and had a mission of dealing with yellow fever.
Seems like a very military approach to me.

 

[AlexB23]

We get these lizard things (not sure if it's a lizard or some close reptile cousin) hanging around the sides of house and inside the garage (never inside the actual home). They leave poop everywhere.

I've caught a bunch with sticky traps. They walk across it and get stuck on them. They starve to death and die and we throw them away. I told this to a neighbor and he said he leaves them alone, because they eat the annoying bugs around you - even termites (which we think we NOW HAVE - as I found what seems to be a mud tube and a freaking small bug with white-ish wings near it).

So, for him, it's an easy trade-off. Less bugs and possibly even termi te prevention vs. lizard poop (which he can just clean up like dog poop).

Same question holds for possums. They are clumsy, shy, and weird looking animals. Yet, they eat all the really bad bugs around the neighborhood. Run them off our property or let them "hang out" to kill the annoying bugs?

No. I will catch the lizards and release them, and have an inspector find any holes in my garage. Plus lizards consume bugs which could be even worse. Let nature take its course.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To answer the original question -- no I would not kill a lizard that happens to be pooping around my house. The most I would probably do would be to do what I can to take measures to prevent lizards from entering my house, to the best of my ability.

This story brought me back memories of a time many years ago, when I was living in an apartment in a city southwest of Toronto. The apartment was nice enough, but there were a small flock of pigeons that loved to perch on my balcony, and leave behind their poop. I eventually called in a specialist, who cleaned the balcony thoroughly and installed netting to prevent the birds from returning. Fortunately, the landlord covered the cost.

 

[sbrothy]

I struggle with this too.

I prefer to think that my compassion for lower animals isn't about their pain so much as it is about me unable to turn off my empathy (i.e. I am projecting).

To be brutally honest I sometimes feel like this about humans I genuinely do not like (for whatever reasons, from pheromones to political and philosophical disagreements).

Being Human | Robert Sapolsky (Check out around 23:50 in.)

I think we should count ourselves really lucky that (those of of who aren't outright sociopaths) have empathy; even for other species.

And then, "ironically", things like genocides occur anyway. It's a mystery to man (sic)....

 

[docnet]

I don't think opossums see very well. I've seen some people keep them as pets. What makes me especially fond of them is they like to eat ticks. Their 'playing dead' is apparently an involuntary response to threats. They seem mostly harmless to humans. Some can be quite adorable.

 

[Gifovaco]

Before killing an animal, you may want to refer to your local laws. Here's an example about squirrels in Ontario:

Go with a rule: Treat them like you want us Off Worlders to treat you

Is it? This is assuming mosquitos are "evil" and play no other role than to kill humans. Very unlikely based on simple observations and errors committed in the past, trying to "correct" nature.


It is you who considers the low worth of mosquitos in comparison to humans. It is a dangerous path to take. How many people need to die from one life form for one to decide to eradicate that life form? If one values human life above all, isn't a single human death enough? Comparing one individual with another is one thing, comparing one life form over another is vastly different.

I thought the great lesson learned was that diversity rules and we all depend on each other, even beyond the animal kingdom.

Go with a rule: Treat them like you want us Off Worlds's to treat you... Grin on that sweet....hehe