Curved Dirac equation, Spin connection

In summary: I'm not sure how you're combining the terms, but I would be very surprised if the spin connection and the tetrad somehow combined to form a single matrix. They should be kept separate. I don't have time to look at this right now, but I will try to get back to you some time tomorrow if possible.In summary, the conversation discusses how to prove that a certain term in the action is equal to a specific value. The conversation goes through various calculations and considers the use of gamma matrices and spin connections. The result is almost there, but there is some difficulty in getting the expected result and there may be a mistake in the calculations.
  • #1
pleasehelpmeno
157
0
[itex](1,a^2,a^2,a^2)[/itex]) from the action; [itex] \mathcal{S}_{D}[\phi,\psi,e^{\alpha}_{\mu}] = \int d^4 x \det(e^{\alpha}_{\mu}) \left[ \mathcal{L}_{KG} + i\bar{\psi}\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi} + g\phi)\bar{\psi}\psi \right]
[/itex] I can show that, [itex]i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi}+g\phi)\psi =0 [/itex] by varying the action. I know that [itex]D_{\mu}=\partial_{\mu}+\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}[/itex] and I know how to relate [itex]\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}[/itex]to the flat space-time gamma matrices [itex]\gamma[/itex], I am just stuck trying to prove that [itex]\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}=\frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a}[/itex] I think this term is equal to [itex] \frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right)[/itex] but if it is I can't get the above result, can anyone help?
 
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  • #2
pleasehelpmeno said:
[itex](1,a^2,a^2,a^2)[/itex]) from the action; [itex] \mathcal{S}_{D}[\phi,\psi,e^{\alpha}_{\mu}] = \int d^4 x \det(e^{\alpha}_{\mu}) \left[ \mathcal{L}_{KG} + i\bar{\psi}\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi} + g\phi)\bar{\psi}\psi \right]
[/itex] I can show that, [itex]i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi}+g\phi)\psi =0 [/itex] by varying the action. I know that [itex]D_{\mu}=\partial_{\mu}+\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}[/itex] and I know how to relate [itex]\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}[/itex]to the flat space-time gamma matrices [itex]\gamma[/itex], I am just stuck trying to prove that [itex]\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}=\frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a}[/itex] I think this term is equal to [itex] \frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right)[/itex] but if it is I can't get the above result, can anyone help?

This is a repost of the question you asked in https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=4316692#post4316692. You are still somehow under the impression that a matrix should equal a scalar. You also seem to want people to do algebra for you, since you haven't bothered to show that you've done any additional work on the calculation since I tried to help you.

Please tell us what result you get when you try to compute

$$\frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right).$$
 
  • #3
I didn't wamt to post a long answer but here goes,

So [itex]\Gamma^{0}_{ij}=\dot{a}a[/itex] and [itex]\Gamma^{i}_{0j}=\frac{\dot{a}}{a}[/itex]
[itex]e^{\nu}_{\alpha}=(1,1/a,1/a,1/a)[/itex]
[itex]e_{\beta\nu}=(1,a,a,a)[/itex]
When [itex]\alpha[/itex] or [itex]\beta[/itex] equals zero then [itex]\gamma^{0}\gamma^{\rho}-\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{0}=0[/itex] so this isn't allowed.

If [itex]\alpha=\beta[/itex] then the gamma matrices also go to zero, so [itex]\alpha \neq \beta [/itex] to contribute.
So if [itex]\nu\neq\alpha[/itex]or[itex]\beta[/itex] the [itex]e^{\nu}_{\alpha} [/itex]or [itex]e_{\beta\nu}[/itex] will equal zero or so this term can immediately be discarded as it will always equal zero since [itex]\alpha \neq \beta [/itex]. [itex]\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu}[/itex] will only be non zero if [itex]\nu=0[/itex] but then [itex]\alpha=0[/itex] so this is not possible or [itex]\sigma =0[/itex] and [itex]\nu=\mu[/itex] but then [itex]\beta[/itex] is zero so this isn't possible. Thus ther eis no contribution to the component obviusly wrong. Since the tetrads are added together can they be relabelled so: [itex]( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu}) [/itex] otherwise I can't see why this would be nonzero, unless maybe i have made a mistake with the gamma matrices
 
  • #4
pleasehelpmeno said:
[itex]\gamma^{0}\gamma^{\rho}-\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{0}=0[/itex] so this isn't allowed.

This is not true. For example, in the Dirac basis

$$\gamma^0 = \begin{pmatrix} I & 0 \\ 0 & -I \end{pmatrix} ,~~~~\gamma^i \begin{pmatrix} 0 & \sigma^i \\ -\sigma^i & 0 \end{pmatrix},$$

you find

$$[\gamma^0,\gamma^i] = -2 \begin{pmatrix} \sigma^i & 0 \\ 0 & \sigma^i \end{pmatrix}.$$

I think that the ##{\Gamma^0}_{ij}## term is the only one that contributes, but you should check. I agree that this is fairly tricky to sort out.
 
  • #5
Am I correct in thinking that the beta's and alpha's are linked?
 
  • #6
pleasehelpmeno said:
Am I correct in thinking that the beta's and alpha's are linked?

They do not have to be equal. For example, ##e_{00} {e_1}^1 {\Gamma^0}_{11}## seems to be a non-vanishing contribution to the spin connection.
 
  • #7
I have almost cracked it, I think it should be should there also be
[itex] \frac{1}{8}( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}) ( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu})[/itex]

The trouble is I get [itex]-\frac{1}{4}\frac{1}{a}[\gamma^{1}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{1} & 0\\ 0&\sigma^{1}
\end{pmatrix}+\gamma^{2}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{2} & 0\\ 0&\sigma^{2}
\end{pmatrix}+\gamma^{3}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{3} & 0\\ 0&\sigma^{3}
\end{pmatrix}](a\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) [/itex] (and another identical version for beta = 0.

Which when combined gives [itex]\frac{3}{2}(\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) [/itex] It is very close to the expected result of [itex]\frac{3}{2}[\gamma^{0}](\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) [/itex] but I can't see any obvius mistake, The only way to get a [itex] \gamma^0[/itex] term present is by choosing [itex]\mu=0[\itex] but that isn't allowed because then whole term would equal zero anyway? Can you think of my mistake or how to get this gamma zero term?
 
Last edited:

1. What is the Curved Dirac Equation?

The Curved Dirac Equation is a mathematical equation that describes the behavior of spin-1/2 particles in a curved spacetime. It is an extension of the Dirac Equation, which describes the behavior of spin-1/2 particles in flat spacetime.

2. What is a Spin Connection?

A Spin Connection is a mathematical object that connects the spin of a particle to the curvature of a spacetime. It is used in the Curved Dirac Equation to account for the effects of gravity on spin-1/2 particles.

3. How is the Curved Dirac Equation derived?

The Curved Dirac Equation is derived from the Dirac Equation and the theory of general relativity. It involves using the spin connection and the metric tensor to account for the effects of gravity on spin-1/2 particles.

4. What is the significance of the Curved Dirac Equation?

The Curved Dirac Equation is a key component in the development of a unified theory of quantum mechanics and general relativity. It also helps to explain the behavior of particles in strong gravitational fields, such as those near black holes.

5. Are there any experimental confirmations of the Curved Dirac Equation?

Yes, there have been several experimental confirmations of the Curved Dirac Equation, particularly in studies of spin-1/2 particles near black holes and in other strong gravitational fields. These experiments have provided strong support for the existence of a unified theory of quantum mechanics and general relativity.

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