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JhonnyDx
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Did the universe Absolutely begin?
Your question is extemely vague. What does "absolutely begin" even mean?JhonnyDx said:Did the universe Absolutely begin?
Then the answer remains, we don't know.JhonnyDx said:Absolutely begin, In the sense of undeniable, and very, very likely.
We don't know. It's turtles all the way down.JhonnyDx said:What is more likely?
JhonnyDx said:The question is not knowing what was "before" (because time would also have begun), but if at some "moment" there was no universe.
JhonnyDx said:if at some "moment" there was no universe.
lifeonmercury said:Scientists really need to get to the bottom of this. These questions are bugging a lot of people and it would help to have some answers.
houlahound said:The universe we currently live in begins at every given moment.
JhonnyDx said:Was talking about the absence of space-time reality as a whole. Was the uniqueness eternal? Was it material?
JhonnyDx said:It's a simple question: did the universe have a beginning?
That is not known to be true. It MIGHT be true but it might not so it is just a personal theory.James Heimbach said:Your question isn't answerable by science or physics.
phinds said:That is not known to be true. It MIGHT be true but it might not so it is just a personal theory.
Well, personal opinion then. It's certainly not demonstrable fact (though I happen to agree w/ it).Drakkith said:Let's not get used to using the term "personal theory" too loosely. His statement is by no means a personal theory.
James Heimbach said:Your question isn't answerable by science or physics.
Physics ends when the ideas in discussion cannot be tested by observing and measuring stuff.James Heimbach said:Your question isn't answerable by science or physics. Your question is a metaphysical one, one whose answer depends upon your worldview, your presuppositions. It is important for scientists to know when physics ends and metaphysics begins.
JhonnyDx said:Did the universe Absolutely begin?
windy miller said:i feel the responses to your question have been a little abrupt so Ill try and give you a fuller answer.
The observable universe is expanding and so if we wind the clock back its contracting.
There are theorems in general relativity ( our best there of the large scale behaviour of the cosmos) called Penrose Hawking singularity theorems that imply that the space time somehow comes to an end in a finite amount of time about 13.8 billion years ago.
Some people interpret this as saying the universe had a beginning 13.8 bio years ago. But the problem here is that if these theories are right then the entire observable universe was once smaller than an atom. Under these conditions we need to take into account quantum mechanics ( our theory that describes the behaviour of sub atomic particles and more). The singularity theorems do not take account of quantum mechanics. So we need a a theory that combines quantum mechanics and general relativity. Alas we have no well verified theory that does this. We do have proposals that scientists take seriously like string theory and loop quantum gravity. People have used these theories to try and work out what happened at the big bang. A common prediction is that the big bang is replaced by a big bounce, so the universe was contracting before it was expanding. But these theories have not been verified by experiments, so these and other similar statements are speculative. Until we get a full theory of quantum gravity and have been it verified by experiment we are not likely to know the answer to your question.
Even if we get the full theory we still might not know the answer to question. So i think a theory of quantum gravity is a necessary condition but it remains to be seen if it is sufficient condition. Since the necessary condition has not been fulfilled the answer to your question is right now: "we don't know". Anyone that claims to say with any high degree of confidence that the universe had a beginning or is eternal into the past in my opinion is over stepping that mark. I hope that provides you with a fuller answer to your question.
windy miller said:But the problem here is that if these theories are right then the entire observable universe was once smaller than an atom.
weirdoguy said:That is not true.
JhonnyDx said:The question is not knowing what was "before" (because time would also have begun), but if at some "moment" there was no universe.
What is moment?houlahound said:The universe we currently live in begins at every given moment.
moment = instant (in this case). That is, an indivisible unit of timevvolodin said:What is moment?