beatrix kiddo said:distance isn't a factor because we are in a pool of them at all times. neutrinos that have traveled all over the universe, neutrinos left over from the big bang, etc.. gravity isn't a force it is purely emmission and absorption.. yeah that whole spinning galaxies thing was lame.. i'll come up with a better answer in a sec...
beatrix kiddo said:ok.. yes I've got the answer. YAY READING! the neutrinos keep the galaxies together because they surround them like giant halos. that also compensates for the majority of missing matter in the galaxies..
"Since there is no evidence of any other forces at work besides gravity in creating the strcuture of the universe, the only reasonable possibility is that there is dark unseen matter around the galaxy, surrounding it like a huge invisible halo... And all the mathematics point to it making up a staggering 90 percent of all the matter in the universe." stephen hawking's universe pg. 163
beatrix kiddo said:this also means that perhaps even solar systems are kept together by a circle of neutrinos! and if neutrinos are indeed the most massive part of the galaxy, and they surround it, then according to einstein's model, wouldn't all the stars and junk sink into that ring of neutrinos??
beatrix kiddo said:the book says that a halo could be made up of neutrinos or machos or wimps...
beatrix kiddo said:but i think it's only neutrinos..the neutrinos obviously rotate around the galaxies... in huge circles, at the speed of light..
Unless you mean that dark matter is made of neutrinos
beatrix kiddo said:but i think it's only neutrinos..the neutrinos obviously rotate around the galaxies... in huge circles, at the speed of light..
beatrix kiddo said:wait.. u didn't know neutrinos make up dark matter?! they're "hot" dark matter to be more exact... i'll cite if u want me to...
beatrix kiddo said:it has to deal with energy fields... the neutrinos create an energy field around us... this keeps us in order. gravity is emission and absorption. force won't change if the neutrinos around the solar system stabilize us. but this whole neutrino mass bit should matter to u, because u think gravity has to deal with space-time and the neutrinos are way more massive than the galaxy. shouldn't the galaxy sink into this large dent in space-time??
chroot said:It doesn't need to be super-sensitive. Any mechanism that's able to generate 170 lbs. of force pushing me into the floor is going to demonstrate variations large enough to be detected with a bathroom scale.
After all, as others have said: if neutrinos from the Sun push me into the Earth during the day, why don't they push me off the Earth at night?
- Warren
beatrix kiddo said:hmmm.. but it does make up the majority of mass in the universe... if it is massive, then it should affect space-time just like any other single object
beatrix kiddo said:do u mean the neutrinos are a lot farther out than the sun? or what?
Alkatran said:So let me get this straight. Because the galaxy is spinning, creating a centrifuge (sp?) force OUTWARDS, we aren't flying off?
me said:i'll come up with a better answer in a sec...
Riiiiiiiight. This is clearly science fiction. What's next? Aliens in spandex and tractor beams?beatrix kiddo said:there are neutrinos revolving around galaxies because the neutrinos are making this energy field..
Seeing as you're making it all up on the spot, I guess I can't blame you for your incoherency. No wonder you don't see physicists doing shows at the Improv.i'm trying to explain it as best as i can...
You've never given any evidence of the premise, so how can you draw any conclusions? Perhaps you don't understand your sources. It is possible that some kind of exotic matter -- neutrinos or other weakly-interacting species -- comprise a lot of the mass of a galaxy. No one is quite sure yet why, but it seems galaxies have more mass than their light implies. The scientists who are considering neutrinos as a reasonably large fraction of a galaxies mass are not supporting the idea that neutrinos are in any way related to the mechanism of gravitation. They are simply considering that their aggregate mass might be substantial.i'm saying since there are neutrinos keeping galaxies together, then maybe neutrinos are keeping the solar system together also...
As I've said, it would take an enormous force to keep an neutrino orbiting a galaxy at nearly light speed. Why don't you try your hand at basic mechanics and calculate what force would be required? What do you suppose provides this force, since gravity no longer exists in your theory?these neutrinos circle galaxies and solar systems at near light speeds because that's how they clumped together when the galaxies and solar systems were first created... they are keeping everything in order.
These neutrinos never hit the earth, so they can't affect gravity there
Seeing as you're making it all up on the spot, I guess I can't blame you for your incoherency. No wonder you don't see physicists doing shows at the Improv.
Aliens in spandex and tractor beams?
beatrix kiddo said:so u're saying that neutrinos DON'T orbit galaxies? uhhhh that's stupid. everyone knows that's where all the missing mass is. and it has to deal with energy warren, not really force.
god... i have explained this before... ENERGY FIELDS, warren! ... maybe stupid can go more indepth on this one...
i should have been more clear. I'm trying to explain this to the point where ur space-time mind can understand...
keep ur sci fi fantasy outta this, warren. I'm trying to be serious..
If they do orbit galaxies, they can't orbit at nearly the speed of light. And if they orbit at any speed, they do so because of gravity. Since you claim that neutrinos themselves create gravity by hitting objects, then how are these neutrinos themselves in orbit? What neutrinos are hitting them?beatrix kiddo said:so u're saying that neutrinos DON'T orbit galaxies? uhhhh that's stupid. everyone knows that's where all the missing mass is. and it has to deal with energy warren, not really force.
The phrase 'ENERGY FIELDS,' even when set in capital letters, is not an explanation. It's a phrase devoid of meaning. What is an energy field? Where do energy fields occur? How can I make my own energy field in a laboratory? What do energy fields do to matter? What do energy fields do to each other?god... i have explained this before... ENERGY FIELDS, warren! ... maybe stupid can go more indepth on this one...
Like it or not, your crap-fountain of a thread here is science fiction.keep ur sci fi fantasy outta this, warren. I'm trying to be serious..
Before we go any further, I want you to answer this question: why are you inventing any of this neutrino-orbiting halo crap anyway? These neutrinos never hit the earth, so they can't affect gravity there. Why are you even discussing them?
chroot said:And indeed, if there were neutrinos pushing you from every direction at once, there'd be no gravity at all -- the net force would be zero.
- Warren
chroot said:What we can't figure out, beatrix, is how all the other planets and stars know to push us one direction into the Earth at noon (away from the sun), and then to instead push us the other way at midnight (toward the sun). Six months later, the situation is reversed, though, and all the other planets and stars would have to somehow switch gears and send their neutrinos the other way.
How do you respond?
- Warren
Alkatran said:They say that almost all forces over distance are proportional to the inverse of distance squared because they have to expand on the surface of a sphere.
urtalkinstupid said:Wow, busy week. I haven't been able to get on as much as I wanted. So, I'm trying to catch up.
Alkatran, in your scenario with the tree and stuff, could you possibly include dnesity as a rate of emission and absorption of neutrinos to make it more realistic to the theory? That would help out a lot.
urtalkinstupid said:Pulling has no opposite force. You grab a doorknob and pull on it. It grabs you and pulls on you back? You push the doorknob. That propogates a force through the doorknob that pushes you back.
urtalkinstupid said:Entropy, we all know that you think space-time curvature is gravity. So, you just think gravity is a geometric effect? Wouldn't space-time curvature throw out gravity as one of the fundamental forces? As you said previously, "space-time curvature isn't a force." So, there are only three fundamental forces?
urtalkinstupid said:Brad Ad23, "gravitational" lensing can be explained int he push theory. Take a beam of light, it is approaching a dense object. This dense object absorbs neutrinos, allowing less to pass through. The beam of light is over the dense object. It is being hit by more neutrinos on the top than bottom. This cause the light beam to bend at an angle.
urtalkinstupid said:Neutrinos are all over. Since they travel at relativistic speeds, they interact with us constantly. If they pass through the earth, they do not cancel the affect of the sun. The neutrinos that pass through are outnumbered by the ones from the sun. The sun merely overpowers the nuetrinos that pass through. Net force is positive. Weigh is simply a term associated with the pull theory of gravity. The push theory does not regard weight. Neutrino direction is uniform until they go through emission and absorption. This alters the direction of the neutrino flow.
urtalkinstupid said:They don't "know" when to push in one direction. The push in all directions. Emission and absorption is what makes a difference in the forces of neutrinos interacting. So, density is an ultimate factor determining emission and absorption. I've recently found a site that explains orbit through neutrinos interaction. Although, it is limited to the Earth moon system of orbiting. I'll be happy to give you the site, if you want it.
urtalkinstupid said:Dark matter is simply a pushing force. Neutrinos are what make up hot dark matter as beatrix kiddo said.
urtalkinstupid said:Let's put emphais on ALMOST. Not ALL forces over a distance are proportional to the inverse of distance squared. Neutrinos do not have to expand on the surface of a sphere. Light does, neutrinos don't.
Like it or not, your crap-fountain of a thread here is science fiction
beatrix kiddo said:i did answer ur question chroot. i never made up the neutrino-halo thing. it says it right there in that source i gave u. I'm not avoiding anything u have to say. neutrinos never hit the earth? what the.. oh i guess u mean the neutrinos around the ss. they DO affect the Earth by keeping it in the ss. weird. if they are keeping the galaxy together, they're keeping the ss together.. a child could grasp this concept..
hahahahahahahaha... like it or not, WARREN, this is theory development. what i think has to be taken seriously because this theory is making ur theories look like crap...
beatrix kiddo said:alkatran, what are u talking about?? they multiply as they go out? but then u say the farther from the sun u are, the less neutrinos there are.. please clean this up..
