Seperation of sodium and potassium carbonates

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In summary, if you want to separate sodium and potassium carbonate from the ashes of plants, you may want to consider using crown ethers. Sodium and potassium salts are very reactive when reacted with water, so you may want to add a strong base to deprotonate any groups that could otherwise inhibit their solvation.
  • #1
JGM_14
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I want to separate sodium and potassium carbonate from the ashes of plants. My question is, Is sodium carbonate soluble in ethanol? I know that potassium carbonate is not so could i put the mixture into 200 proof ethanol and separate the two?
 
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  • #2
Only a guess but sodium and postassium salts are going to have very similair solubility in anything.
 
  • #3
Depending on the composition of your plant ashes, you may want to consider using crown ethers to separate your carbonates; specifically 15-crown-5 for your sodium and 18-crown-6 for the potassium carbonate.

Edit: If it does not interfere with your procedure, consider adding a strong base to deprotonate any groups (e.g., substituted ammoniums) that could otherwise inhibit the ethers' solvation of your cations.
 
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  • #4
Basically, just remember, L S, B C L, S P A
All potassium,nitrate salts are soluble.. however, chlorides,carbonates and sulphates are an exception.For chlorides, all chlorides are soluble except lead chloride and silver chloride..all sulphates are soluble except barium sulphate,chloride sulphate and lead sulphate..for carbonates,sodium,potassium and ammonium carbonate is soluble while the rest are insoluble.. as as sodium and potassium are very reactive when reacted with water due to the reactive series of metals..u can separate sodium and potassium with their solutions by titration, changing them into a oxide or hydroxide...
 
  • #5
Lucas_SG said:
Basically, just remember, L S, B C L, S P A
All potassium,nitrate salts are soluble.. however, chlorides,carbonates and sulphates are an exception.For chlorides, all chlorides are soluble except lead chloride and silver chloride..all sulphates are soluble except barium sulphate,chloride sulphate and lead sulphate..for carbonates,sodium,potassium and ammonium carbonate is soluble while the rest are insoluble.. as as sodium and potassium are very reactive when reacted with water due to the reactive series of metals.
As sodium and potassium salts have similar solubilities in aqueous solution, consider a solvent that can distinguish between either cation (try crown ethers)
Lucas_SG said:
u can separate sodium and potassium with their solutions by titration, changing them into a oxide or hydroxide...
This makes no sense.
 
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  • #6
Solubility of potassium carbonate is 111 grams per 100 mL of water.
Solubility of sodium carbonate is 30.7 grams per 100 mL of water.
In a saturated solution, which would precipitate out first with careful drying and chilling?

Crown ethers are wicked expensive and toxic as *ell.
 
  • #7
JGM_14 said:
I want to separate sodium and potassium carbonate from the ashes of plants. My question is, Is sodium carbonate soluble in ethanol? I know that potassium carbonate is not so could i put the mixture into 200 proof ethanol and separate the two?

I ain't real certain carbonates are there in the first place. Not if it's "ashes" as in ashes left over from a fire. Carbonate decomposes with heat to form carbon dioxide. It's why sodium bicarbonate smothers fire.

Somebody correct me if this is wrong.

Jeff Corkern
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consider the following as a statement of logic and rank it as "True" or "False."

"If people possesses immortal souls, it should be possible to deduce this by logical analysis of their behavior."

www.theninepointfivetheses.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  • #8
Ya both carbonates are present in ashes. Na2CO3 predominates in sea plants and K2CO3 in land plants IIRC. This is an old school preparation of potash and is outlined in scores of old textbooks. Use Google books to help you- you'll get more info there than anyone on this forum can give!

--------------------------------
Backyard Chemistry
 
  • #9
Cesium said:
Ya both carbonates are present in ashes. Na2CO3 predominates in sea plants and K2CO3 in land plants IIRC. This is an old school preparation of potash and is outlined in scores of old textbooks. Use Google books to help you- you'll get more info there than anyone on this forum can give!

--------------------------------

Ah, so.

I stand corrected.
 
  • #10
Even if only the oxided or hydroxides were produced during burning, they absorb CO2 from the air and slowly convert to the carbonates.
 
  • #11
same with calcium oxide
 
  • #12
I wondered how you could form carbonates in a fire . . .


Jeff Corkern
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consider the following as a statement of logic and rank it as "True" or "False."

"If people possesses immortal souls, it should be possible to deduce this by logical analysis of their behavior."

www.theninepointfivetheses.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  • #13
how about a reaction with an acid then seperation
 

Related to Seperation of sodium and potassium carbonates

What is the purpose of separating sodium and potassium carbonates?

The purpose of separating sodium and potassium carbonates is to obtain pure samples of each compound for further experimentation or industrial use. These compounds have different properties and uses, and separating them allows for more accurate and controlled testing.

What methods can be used to separate sodium and potassium carbonates?

One method is fractional crystallization, where the solubility differences between the two compounds are used to separate them. Another method is ion exchange chromatography, which uses a resin to selectively bind and separate the ions. Additionally, electrolysis can be used to separate the compounds based on their different melting points.

Why is it important to accurately measure the amount of sodium and potassium carbonates in a mixture?

Accurately measuring the amount of sodium and potassium carbonates in a mixture is important because these compounds have different properties and uses. In industrial settings, precise amounts of each compound may be needed for a certain process or product. In scientific experiments, using the correct amounts is crucial for accurate results and conclusions.

What potential hazards are associated with separating sodium and potassium carbonates?

One potential hazard is the corrosive nature of these compounds, which can cause skin and eye irritation. They may also react violently with other chemicals, leading to fire or explosion hazards. Proper safety measures, such as wearing protective gear and handling the compounds in a well-ventilated area, should be followed to minimize these risks.

Are there any alternative methods for separating sodium and potassium carbonates?

Yes, there are alternative methods such as distillation, which utilizes the difference in boiling points between the two compounds. Another method is solvent extraction, where a solvent is used to selectively dissolve and separate one compound from the other. However, the most appropriate method will depend on the specific properties and quantities of the compounds being separated.

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