Why is the Electromagnetic Field Tensor in the QED Lagrangian?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the purpose of the electromagnetic field tensor term in the Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) Lagrangian. Participants explore its role in the dynamics of the electromagnetic field and its interaction with matter fields, addressing theoretical aspects of the Lagrangian formulation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the role of the middle term in the QED Lagrangian, noting it does not fit the typical kinetic minus potential framework and seeks clarification on its representation of energy in electric and magnetic fields.
  • Another participant argues that the middle term is essential for a dynamically closed QED Lagrangian, preventing the photon field from being treated as an external field and ensuring Lorentz covariance and gauge invariance.
  • It is mentioned that the middle term represents the Lagrangian for the free electromagnetic field, which provides the necessary dynamics for the electromagnetic field through the Euler-Lagrange equations.
  • Some participants emphasize that without the middle term, there would be no differential equation governing the behavior of the A potential, suggesting that the A field could become trivial or arbitrary.
  • There is a reiteration that the free fields in QED are specifically the electromagnetic and Dirac fields, and that QED is a minimal extension of these fields to include their interaction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the middle term's role, with some emphasizing its necessity for dynamics and interaction, while others focus on its representation of energy. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the term.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the term's role may depend on the definitions and assumptions made regarding the Lagrangian and the fields involved. There are unresolved questions about the implications of removing the middle term.

evac-q8r
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The QED Lagrangian is given by [tex]\mathcal{L}_{\hbox{QED}} = \bar{\psi}(i\partial - m)\psi<br /> - \frac{1}{4}(F_{\mu\nu})^2 - e\bar{\psi}\gamma^\mu\psi A_\mu[/tex]

What is the purpose of the middle term. I know that it represents the energy of the E and B fields. However is that due to the external potential A? I am used to thinking about Lagrangians in terms as equal to the kinetic term minus the potential, T-V. This term doesn't seem to be either and nor does the final interaction term. I didn't put the slash in the partial derivative because I didn't know how to. I understand that it is really a sum of three separate Lagrangians, that is, [tex]\mathcal{L}_{\hbox{QED}} = \mathcal{L}_{\hbox{Dirac}} + \mathcal{L}_{\hbox{Maxwell}} + \mathcal{L}_{\hbox{int}}.[/tex] What does the middle term represent or what does it do for us?

Thanks a Million.

-EVAC
 
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Evac,

I deleted your other thread, because it is basically the same as this one. If you want to modify your posts, use the Edit feature--no need to start another thread.

Anyway, here was my response from the other thread.

Without that term the QED Lagrangian would not be dynamically closed. That is, the photon field would be an external field that interacts with the matter fields. So we include the EM "kinetic energy". The only way to do it that is both Lorentz covariant and gauge invariant is to introduce a massless term that is quadratic in the EM field strength tensor.
 
The middle term is the Lagrangian for the free EM field. By itself, the resulting Euler-Lagrange equations would give the free EM field dynamics. Just like the first term is the free Dirac field Lagrangian. Alone those two terms describe the two systems that are being allowed to interact via the third term. With one or the other of the first terms missing, you know longer have two interacting fields.

The free field EM term contains the first-derivatives of the A potential. Without it there is no dynamical information about the behavior of the EM field. That is, there is no differential equation to be satisfield by A. I haven't checked, but the A field would probably either be trivial or arbitrary in that case.
 
Tom Mattson said:
Evac,

I deleted your other thread, because it is basically the same as this one. If you want to modify your posts, use the Edit feature--no need to start another thread.

Ohhh. I think I know what happened. I hit the submit button instead of the preview button. I hit the stop button on my browser, but apparently is must have been too late. Sorry about that.
 
Last edited:
pellman said:
The middle term is the Lagrangian for the free EM field. By itself, the resulting Euler-Lagrange equations would give the free EM field dynamics. Just like the first term is the free Dirac field Lagrangian. Alone those two terms describe the two systems that are being allowed to interact via the third term. With one or the other of the first terms missing, you know longer have two interacting fields.

The free field EM term contains the first-derivatives of the A potential. Without it there is no dynamical information about the behavior of the EM field. That is, there is no differential equation to be satisfield by A. I haven't checked, but the A field would probably either be trivial or arbitrary in that case.

It is a point that the free fields in QED ARE the EM and Dirac fields, not some other fields. QED is thus just a minimal extension of Dirac and EM, all it adds is that they interact! And the quantization, of course.
 
Thanks for the wonderful answers, guys. I have a better understanding of this term now.

-EVAC
 

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