Japan Earthquake: Nuclear Plants at Fukushima Daiichi

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The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is facing significant challenges following the earthquake, with reports indicating that reactor pressure has reached dangerous levels, potentially 2.1 times capacity. TEPCO has lost control of pressure at a second unit, raising concerns about safety and management accountability. The reactor is currently off but continues to produce decay heat, necessitating cooling to prevent a meltdown. There are conflicting reports about an explosion, with indications that it may have originated from a buildup of hydrogen around the containment vessel. The situation remains serious, and TEPCO plans to flood the containment vessel with seawater as a cooling measure.
  • #1,321
AtomicWombat said:
It appears the orange object is before the helicopter reaches the roof on reactor building 2 on its way to reactor building 3. So my opinion is that it is most unlikely to be the core of reactor 3 as it is in the wrong location.

The video you have linked is the clearest version I have seen of this video. ...

I fully agree and if it is red hot where is the smoke? There would be enough debris around to ignite

The most watchable videos are here, that guy has nice software.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=KurtsFilmeVideo&aq=f
 
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  • #1,322
AntonL said:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-secrecy-20110325%2C0%2C3610246.story"

So its official now what we have been saying this all along

and in #1176 I wrote:
I personally feel that Tepco engineers are overextended, paralyzed and firefighting,
instead of having a set clear path of action with small deviations to solve the problem.
The question now arises if nuclear reactor accidents should be co-managed internationally,
an new task for the United Nations as they are the only body to enforce this.

and in #1195 I wrote:
All I want to say is that nuclear accident management need to be rethought and taken out
of the control of the operator. It would be of interest if the big nuclear nation to have a
national emergency manual that structures the accident management that takes immediate
effect with military like precision.

I think the LA Times article is suggesting more than just this. To be blunt, TEPCO are either knaves or fools, or some combination thereof. They are certainly playing the Japanese public and international community for fools. The whole thing is a ridiculous attempt at a cover-up that has gone on even longer than Chernobyl.

Not only that, many nuclear industry experts are too sensitive to criticism of their industry, especially at a time when things were starting to look up, until...Fukushima. If an insider comes out and says what they think is really happening that may be the end of their career.

Unfortunately that leaves Joe-public - especially the Japanese public - in the vulneravble position where almost no one with authority or expertise is acting in their interests.

We are left with informed and uninformed speculation. Is is quite likely that the work done on this site - despite the lack of consensus - is getting closer to the truth than anything coming from TEPCO, the IAEA, or other authorities.
 
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  • #1,324
REGARDING THE EXPLOSION AT BLDG 3

The slide show of the proposed mechanism seems highly credible.
reference: http://www.scribd.com/doc/51564602?secret_password=th7hw1mmpjwnfmd0mbj

I see one obvious flaw, at least in the diagrammatic representation (diagram attached, again from above referenced slide show)

The explosion is shown occurring with a full SFP. There is a first hand account of large volumes of water sloshing out of one of the SFP's and onto a worker in the buliding (not sure which) at the time of the 9.0 quake. There is speculation that "damage" from the quake may have resulted in leaks and there are lots of calculations of the boil off time of water from the SFPs. But . . .

1) A hydrogen gas explosion occurred in Bldg 4 with an empty reactor core, and
2) as I pointed out earlier, the odds of the SFP's remaining full after the quake seem about the same as an open coffee cup in the cup holder of your car remaining full after driving over a dozen speed bumps without slowing down.
3) the explosion at Unit 3 was nothing like that at Unit 1, which occurred minutes after controlled venting at Unit 1.

Conclusion: there is no way to know the starting volume of water in any of the SFP's after the quake. Hydrogen gas from SFP's in 4 and quite possibly 3 may contributed to the explosions. Secondary damage to the SFP or reactor containment from the blast at Unit 3 cannot be dismissed as a possibility, as this slide would seem to indicate.
 

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  • #1,325
About the orange object and stuff, it is getting old , especially considering the data that were provided.. We really want to guess what it is from pixel-peeping ? Then we at the very least should try to get the perspective right and try to get a 3D view of what and where it is..Outside the secondary containment , top of a vertical structure (look at black lines)..
there you are, I got some of it right I think


[PLAIN]http://k.min.us/imlv0i.jpg
 
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  • #1,326
(edit I do not know my left from the right sorry for confusing)

check the bottom right hand corner and you will see the breeze over the warm pool just below the smoke/steam line

You will also see some junk sticking out of the water so my theory of bombs (falling debris) damagaing the fuel rods is feasible

attachment.php?attachmentid=33550&stc=1&d=1301142414.jpg
 

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  • #1,327
TCups said:
REGARDING THE EXPLOSION AT BLDG 3

The slide show of the proposed mechanism seems highly credible.
reference: http://www.scribd.com/doc/51564602?secret_password=th7hw1mmpjwnfmd0mbj

I see one obvious flaw, at least in the diagrammatic representation (diagram attached, again from above referenced slide show)

The explosion is shown occurring with a full SFP. There is a first hand account of large volumes of water sloshing out of one of the SFP's and onto a worker in the buliding (not sure which) at the time of the 9.0 quake. There is speculation that "damage" from the quake may have resulted in leaks and there are lots of calculations of the boil off time of water from the SFPs. But . . .

1) A hydrogen gas explosion occurred in Bldg 4 with an empty reactor core, and
2) as I pointed out earlier, the odds of the SFP's remaining full after the quake seem about the same as an open coffee cup in the cup holder of your car remaining full after driving over a dozen speed bumps without slowing down.
3) the explosion at Unit 3 was nothing like that at Unit 1, which occurred minutes after controlled venting at Unit 1.

Conclusion: there is no way to know the starting volume of water in any of the SFP's after the quake. Hydrogen gas from SFP's in 4 and quite possibly 3 may contributed to the explosions.

Thanks TCups,

Excellent link.

To me the obvious flaw is the clear difference in explosion mechanisms of reactor 1 and reactor 3, as you point out. We agree on this and we are trying to work out why. Dr Matthias Bruan's explanation (your link) makes complete sense for reactor 1. It is not consistent with the reactor 3 explosion.
 
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  • #1,328
Concerning the availability/non availability of data, there is an effort to collect unofficial (and most likely non calibrated) radiation data in Japan using private Geiger counters, don't know if it helps figuring out what is going, but haven't seen it mentioned here:

http://community.pachube.com/node/611#3d

David
 
  • #1,329
AtomicWombat said:
Thanks TCups,

Excellent link.

To me the obvious flaw is the clear difference in explosion mechanisms of reactor 1 and reactor 3, as you point out. We agree on this and we are trying to work out why. Dr Matthias Bruan's explanation (your link) makes complete sense for reactor 1. It is not consistent with the reactor 3 explosion.

Below my theory posted earlier

AntonL said:
Here is a time line of the explosions and reported CV venting
Unit 1 - 12.03.2011 at 15:36 : CVv 15:00 on 12.03.11
Unit 3 - 14.03.2011 at 11:01 : CVv 09:20 on 13.03.11
Unit 4 - 15.03.2011 at 06:14
Unit 2 - 15.03.2011 at 06:20 : CVv 11:55 on 13.03.11

There is a correlation between Unit 1 CV venting and Hydrogen blast.

Below SFP data FU = fuel units followed by pool volume and heat load of the FU
Unit 1 - 292 FU 1200m3 60kW
Unit 2 - 587 FU 1425m3 400kW
Unit 3 - 514 FU 1425m3 200kW
Unit 4 - 1331 FU 1425m3 2000kW + 200 brand new FU (yes 2MW not a typo)

This sets a new light on my earlier proposal
Unit 1 exploded due to H2 leak of venting system - possibly Earth quake damage
Unit 2 to 4 exploded due to hydrogen generation from equipment pools.
 
  • #1,330
Picture of the operating floor of UNIT 6 (similar to the operating floor of the other unit)
According to an Japanese engineer who work on the design of the containment vessel of unit 4
[PLAIN]http://min.us/jjP5c0.jpg
 
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  • #1,331
AntonL said:
I fully agree and if it is red hot where is the smoke? There would be enough debris around to ignite

The most watchable videos are here, that guy has nice software.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=KurtsFilmeVideo&aq=f

. . . and the most watchable image stabilized videos have been edited from the original 9+ minutes to 6 min 18 seconds, with all the close up shots of the white rods and the questionable glowing red spot removed. Hmmm.

Addendum:
Here is the original 9 minute video of the 'copter fly over:
 
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  • #1,332
AntonL said:
(edit I do not know my left from the right sorry for confusing)

check the bottom right hand corner and you will see the breeze over the warm pool just below the smoke/steam line

You will also see some junk sticking out of the water so my theory of bombs damagaing the fuel rods is feasible

attachment.php?attachmentid=33550&stc=1&d=1301142414.jpg

Dude - that is a picture of the south wall elevation of Building 4. Check it out in this wide angle view. . .

and compare to the best post-explosion shot of the south elevation of Bldg 3 from the 'copter video (Picture 22)
 

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  • #1,333
I found these infographics of the basement flooding

Can someone translate?
attachment.php?attachmentid=33554&stc=1&d=1301145974.jpg


translation provided
使用済み核燃料 SFP
海側 towards the ocean
タービン turbine

地下一階のイメージ図 underground (B1) map
浸水している場所 submerged area
タービンの復水器 machine to restore turbine water (literal translation - I don't know the technical name) - condensers
タービンは階上 turbine is upstairs
被曝した作業員がいた場所 place where workers were exposed to radiation
高圧復水ポンプ high pressure pump to return water
一階への階段 stairs to the first floor
ケーブルをつなぐ作業 work to connect the cable (electrical?)
 

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  • #1,334
TCups said:
Dude - that is a picture of the south wall elevation of Building 4. Check it out in this wide angle view. . .
TCups correct and right would be east and SE corner is the SFP!

Grabbed from this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95a8obR2GaE&feature=BF&list=ULr5HsMVY6W0k&index=3
presumably originally grabbed from a news broadcast, the low res video at 2:20 halts,
a high def view is shown for 12 seconds, and I presume the shimmer of water is discussed -
it was an issue as at the time as water was being sprayed into 3 and USA said that 4 is most
important and Tepco countered by saying water was spotted in 3

Just my thoughts and I did not say that the debris in the pool is from 3
 
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  • #1,335
|Fred said:
Picture of the operating floor of UNIT 6 (similar to the operating floor of the other unit)
According to an Japanese engineer who work on the design of the containment vessel of unit 4
[PLAIN]http://min.us/jjP5c0.jpg[/QUOTE]

Fred:

This would have to be a "Fish Eye" lens photo taken from atop the large crane. If I am seeing this correctly, then the large orange structure is the drywell cap (DWC) and it is not in the equipment pool. Also, Reactor Unit 6, I believe, was a later design. In this photo, the top of the reactor containment appears to be centered north-south and east-west, if oriented as were Bldg 3. Note the relationship of the (two?) pools to the right of the larger SFP and that there are apparently channels, smaller, but not unlike the channel to the primary containment, connecting all 3 pools.

I have to believe this layout is a bit different from what may be in Units 3 and 4.

Also, IF the plug were blown in Unit 3, then the DWC would have blown skyward too. That would be a pretty large chunk of painted metal debris which might be visible on the satellite photos. I haven't seen anything like it on the ground.
 

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  • #1,336
AntonL said:
TCups correct and right would be east and SE corner is the SFP!

Grabbed from this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95a8obR2GaE&feature=BF&list=ULr5HsMVY6W0k&index=3
presumably originally grabbed from a news broadcast, the low res video at 2:20 halts,
a high def view is shown for 12 seconds, and I presume the shimmer of water is discussed -
it was an issue as at the time as water was being sprayed into 3 and USA said that 4 is most
important and Tepco countered by saying water was spotted in 3

Just my thoughts and I did not say that the debris in the pool is from 3

I see no shimmer at unit 4, 2:20 on the video -- I see part of the green fuel handling equipment through some smoke.

And before the 9 minute version of the video was edited, there was a pretty good shot of the SFP of 3 (just before the 'copter passed through the steam/smoke) that showed what looked like a deep black hole at SFP3. One of my earlier posts has a screenshot. Maybe I can find it.

. . . yes. Here is the original 9 minute video link


and post #784, page 49 shows the best look into SFP3 from the original 'copter fly over video.
 

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  • #1,337
AtomicWombat said:
'Two of the three have been hospitalised due to possible burns caused by beta rays, which can cause major skin damage.

They were not wearing boots at the time so their feet were soaked in the water.

TEPCO said almost no water was present during an on-site inspection the previous day and also that the level of radiation was low during the inspection.

"Because of this, the workers were believed to have continued their work even after their dosimeter alarm went off, assuming a problem with the machine," a TEPCO official said.

TEPCO plans to strictly reinforce the rule of evacuating the site whenever the dosimeter's alarm goes off.'

See:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/25/3173500.htm"

This is farcical.
-------------------------
So is the term "Beta Rays". Since they are particles, Electrons or Positrons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle"
 
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  • #1,338
only translating the non-obvious ones (but even some of these are obvious):

使用済み核燃料 SFP
海側 towards the ocean
タービン turbine

地下一階のイメージ図 underground (B1) map
浸水している場所 submerged area
タービンの復水器 machine to restore turbine water (literal translation - I don't know the technical name)
タービンは階上 turbine is upstairs
被曝した作業員がいた場所 place where workers were exposed to radiation
高圧復水ポンプ high pressure pump to return water
一階への階段 stairs to the first floor
ケーブルをつなぐ作業 work to connect the cable (electrical?)

The interesting stuff looks like it's on the bottom half - if you need any other translations of the diagram on top, just post/ask...
 
  • #1,339
Borek said:
To all:

Please stop speculating about these red spots. There is a lot of debris of all colors in the area, just because something is red or orange doesn't mean it is hot and glowing.

Besides, even if it was orange glowing, I very much doubt it that it could have been recorded by camera and seen in fully daylight (think about volcanic lava: you need twilight to appreciate its brilliant orange glow).
Somebody said it could be a fire extinguisher.
It could also be an orange painted metal structure.
 
  • #1,340
I have personally observed such events in the nuclear industry, which is primarily due to intelligence level and a work effect beyond normal. When in an emergency these people will generally suffer the most. I have seen workers continue to work on equipment when they were doused with contaminated water, dosimetry alarmed, respiratory equipment failed (cocked masked to breath better), gloves were schredded and they continued to perform their assigned work.

Tokyo Electric Power Company has been criticised over yesterday's exposure to workers operating in ankle-deep water,

But it is thought that contractors ignored alarms from their dosimeters, while ankle-deep in contaminated water for about three hours.

Also, it is incomprehensible that station Health Physicist would not know the basement of Turbine Building always has low levels of radioactive contamination present in wet areas. Which would increase during a reactor accident and by the use of the feed system to inject water into the reactor. At some point to keep the RPV from going solid, they had to let some water out to somewhere.
 
  • #1,341
@TCups
it is the bolted DWC (but obviously no in place)
you are welcome to watch the full video here http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13414000
2 hours in Japanese translated but kind of a pain to follow
 
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  • #1,342
AntonL said:
(edit I do not know my left from the right sorry for confusing)

check the bottom right hand corner and you will see the breeze over the warm pool just below the smoke/steam line

You will also see some junk sticking out of the water so my theory of bombs (falling debris) damagaing the fuel rods is feasible

attachment.php?attachmentid=33550&stc=1&d=1301142414.jpg

Anton:

I think that is questionable. And besides, if the damage to building 4 were caused by falling debris, the debris would have had to be aloft a loooooooonnnng time as satellite photos show Bldg 4 intact sometime after Bldg 3 has exploded. I remember this from the original posts where I suggested blast damage from Bldg 3 had blown a square hole in the north side of Bldg 4 (remember the infamous tongue of insulation, etc.?). That would have been somewhere around posts 300-400, I think. If I can find it, I will edit this and add the image.

Addendum: Actually, no -- it was later in the thread where the holes in the roof of Turbine Bldg 3 and the contaminated water in the basement were being discussed. Still looking. . .

Second Addendum: I cannot find the post, but I am sure someone posted a satellite picture showing an intact Bldg 4 after the blast at Bldg 3, refuting my conjecture that the blast at Bldg 3 might have blown the square hole in the north side of Bldg 4 and damaged the roof of Bldg 4. That, of course, would also constitute photographic proof that heavy falling debris from the blast at Bldg 3 had not damaged Bldg 4.
 
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  • #1,343
M. Bachmeier said:
I read a report somewhere that indicated that pressure sensing equipment for units 2 and 3 might not be operable or reliable.

I believe that there was conjecture on this site about that. I do not remember reading it outside of this forum. Anybody have a link?
 
  • #1,344
Couple of questions:

What is the purpose of the dry-well cap, outside of the obvious?
More specific, is it also designed to help prevent or deflect energies from the ejection of core material in case of a catastrophic event?
How heavy would the steel gauge be for the cap?
Are all these dry-well caps orange?
If they are orange would in not be possible to observe the cap from number 3 reactor from aerial observation?
 
  • #1,345
M. Bachmeier said:
Couple of questions:

What is the purpose of the dry-well cap, outside of the obvious?
More specific, is it also designed to help prevent or deflect energies from the ejection of core material in case of a catastrophic event?
How heavy would the steel gauge be for the cap?
Are all these dry-well caps orange?
If they are orange would in not be possible to observe the cap from number 3 reactor from aerial observation?

------------------

The dry well/Primary Reactor Vessel Containment cap is a pressure boundary/seal for the primary containment. Stacked concrete and inflatable seals would not hold sufficient pressure. It is thick steel, probably over 3/4". Do not know if the color is pertinent, and probably is a corrosion inhibitor paint.
 
  • #1,346
kfmfe04 said:
only translating the non-obvious ones (but even some of these are obvious):


The interesting stuff looks like it's on the bottom half - if you need any other translations of the diagram on top, just post/ask...
thanks
 
  • #1,347
Reno Deano said:
------------------

The dry well/Primary Reactor Vessel Containment cap is a pressure boundary/seal for the primary containment. Stacked concrete and inflatable seals would not hold sufficient pressure. It is thick steel, probably over 3/4". Do not know if the color is pertinent, and probably is a corrosion inhibitor paint.
So I guess containment, even in the case of a powerful explosion is factored into the design. The design seems to be such that energy from an explosion would be partially channeled either sideways or down or both. In the absence of more information I think I'll avoid speculation.
 
  • #1,348
Pressure sensors:

"Earlier hopes that restoring offsite power to the control rooms at Units 1-2 and 3-4 would allow quick reactivation of normal cooling systems were dashed with discovery, anticipated in our coverage, that critical pumps, valves and pressure sensors might be damaged and need repair or replacement. With radioactive smoke still coming from Unit 3, three more workers (laying electrical cables) at the site were exposed to dangerous levels in excess water outside, two of them hospitalized. "

Can't vouch for validity:

http://my.firedoglake.com/scarecrow/tag/fukushima-fifty/
 
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  • #1,349
We discussed this earlier, now Japanese researcher confirms our view

Researcher warned 2 yrs ago of massive tsunami striking nuke plant
TOKYO, March 27, Kyodo

A researcher said Saturday he had warned two years ago about the possible risk of a
massive tsunami hitting a nuclear power plant in Japan, but Tokyo Electric Power Co., the
operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant crippled by the March 11 earthquake and
ensuing tsunami, had brushed off the warning.

According to the researcher, Yukinobu Okamura, and the records of a government council
where he made the warning, TEPCO asserted that there was flexibility in the quake
resistance design of its plants and expressed reluctance to raise the assumption of possible
quake damage citing a lack of sufficient information.

''There should be ample flexibility in the safety of a nuclear power plant,'' said Okamura, head
of the Active Fault and Earthquake Research Center at the National Institute of Advanced
Industrial Science and Technology. ''It is odd to have an attitude of not taking into
consideration indeterminate aspects.''

Okamura had warned in 2009 of massive tsunami based on his study since around 2004 of
the traces of a major tsunami believed to have swept away about a thousand people in the
year 869 after a magnitude 8.3 quake off northeastern Japan.

He had found in his research that tsunami from the ancient quake had hit a wide range of the
coastal regions of northeastern Japan, at least as far north as Ishinomaki in Miyagi
Prefecture and as far south as the town of Namie in Fukushima Prefecture -- close to the
Fukushima Daiichi plant -- penetrating as much as 3 to 4 kilometers inland.

As a result of the quake and tsunami earlier this month, Japan has been facing its worst
nuclear crisis as electricity and cooling functions failed at the power plant in Fukushima
Prefecture, releasing radioactive materials.

==Kyodo
 
  • #1,350
AntonL said:
We discussed this earlier, now Japanese researcher confirms our view
Re: possible tsunami, I saw an interview the scientist following the quake, but any warnings to TEPCO were either not addressed or not included.
 

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