Combinatorics, permutations of letters

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the number of distinct 5-letter "words" that can be formed from the letters in "ALGEBRA," where each letter can only be used once. The correct answer is determined to be 1320, achieved by considering combinations of letters and accounting for the repeated letter A. A brute force method was initially used to arrive at the answer, which involved generating combinations of letters and counting arrangements. A more efficient approach suggested involves categorizing the cases based on the number of A's present in the combinations. The conversation emphasizes the importance of systematic counting methods in combinatorial problems.
Hannisch
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Homework Statement


How many "words" with 5 letters can be created from the letters in the word ALGEBRA? Each letter can be used only once.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I know the answer to this (1320) and I know how I got to it (which I'll describe in a minute), but I know that while my way of getting it is right, it's. not the easiest, and I can't seem to figure out how on Earth they want me to do it.

I know that choosing 5 things from a set with 7 elements can be done in

\frac{7!}{(7-5)!}

ways. I also know that if I were to use all the letters of ALGEBRA the answer would be

\frac{7!}{2!}

since one letter is used twice. In this case these happen to be exactly same, but I can't seem to put these principles together to get a correct answer. Help, please?

The way I solved it was more of a brute force solution. The correct answer is 11 * 5!, and I got to that conclusion by reasoning that 5! of the words are made by the letters LGEBR, which have no recurring letters. Then I "exchanged" one of the letters from that to an A, one at a time, and then to both As. This can be done in 11 ways:

LGEBR
AGEBR
LAEBR
LGABR
LGEAR
LGEBA
AAEBR
LAABR
LGAAR
LGEAA
AGEBA

And all of them can be chosen in 5! different combinations. I know this is the correct answer (it's an online based homework, I've inputted this and it says I'm right).
 
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Hi Hannisch! :smile:

That certainly works.

But quicker would be to split the problem into three …

count separately the number of words with no As, with one A, and with 2As. :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
But quicker would be to split the problem into three …
count separately the number of words with no As, with one A, and with 2As. :wink:
Slightly quicker still, just separate the cases "at most one A" (just as with all the other letters) and "2 As"
 
oh yes! :biggrin:
 
I tried to combine those 2 formulas but it didn't work. I tried using another case where there are 2 red balls and 2 blue balls only so when combining the formula I got ##\frac{(4-1)!}{2!2!}=\frac{3}{2}## which does not make sense. Is there any formula to calculate cyclic permutation of identical objects or I have to do it by listing all the possibilities? Thanks
Since ##px^9+q## is the factor, then ##x^9=\frac{-q}{p}## will be one of the roots. Let ##f(x)=27x^{18}+bx^9+70##, then: $$27\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)^2+b\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)+70=0$$ $$b=27 \frac{q}{p}+70 \frac{p}{q}$$ $$b=\frac{27q^2+70p^2}{pq}$$ From this expression, it looks like there is no greatest value of ##b## because increasing the value of ##p## and ##q## will also increase the value of ##b##. How to find the greatest value of ##b##? Thanks
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