News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

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The discussion centers around John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his vice presidential candidate in the 2008 election. Participants express mixed reactions to her nomination, noting her limited experience as the governor of Alaska and questioning whether her gender will attract disenchanted Hillary Clinton supporters. There is speculation about Palin's appeal to female voters and potential strategies to counter Barack Obama’s campaign. Concerns are raised about her qualifications and the implications of having a less experienced candidate on the ticket, especially given McCain's age and health issues. The conversation also touches on the broader themes of gender in politics, the effectiveness of her candidacy in swaying voters, and the potential for her to energize conservative bases. Overall, the selection is viewed as a strategic move, but opinions vary on its effectiveness and implications for the election.
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I don't know too much about her. I watched some youtube video interviews of her and she seems pretty decent. Good talker and educated. Is this an oil play as she could talk about drilling in Alaska? Also a women play? Maybe to steal some hillary supporters?

How will the VP debate turn out? I feel like Biden will bully her?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/palin.republican.vp.candidate/index.html
 
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Physics news on Phys.org
McCain said to choose Alaska gov as running mate
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_veepstakes

DENVER - John McCain tapped little-known Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his vice presidential running mate, two senior campaign officials told The Associated Press on Friday. A formal announcement was expected within a few hours at a campaign rally in swing-state Ohio.

Palin, 44, is a self-styled hockey mom and political reformer who has been governor of her state less than two years. Palin's selection was a stunning surprise, as McCain passed over many other better known prospects, some of whom had been the subject of intense speculation for weeks or months.

At 44, she is a generation younger that Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, who is Barack Obama's running mate on the Democratic ticket.
Well, I had heard that he was considering a woman, and I definitely think that it is a deliberate attempt to attract the female voters who were disgruntled over Hillary Clinton's loss to Obama. Very shrewed move. Makes for an interesting race.

I looked at the list of female governors - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_state_governors_in_the_United_States - and missed her. She's at the bottom of the list since she's the most recently elected.

I don't think it is so much about ANWR, but that will certainly be an issue, as will drilling off-shore. I'm sure McCain and the Republicans will push the decision back to the individual states, since some state governments tend to be more pro-development (tax revenue) rather than be concerned about pollution and environment degradation.

It's also a good way to develop resources for campaign contributions.
 
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I must say that the VP choices for both candidates were certainly quite surprising.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
I don't know too much about her. I watched some youtube video interviews of her and she seems pretty decent. Good talker and educated. Is this an oil play as she could talk about drilling in Alaska? Also a women play? Maybe to steal some hillary supporters?

How will the VP debate turn out? I feel like Biden will bully her?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/mccain.vp/index.html

Apparently she is a maverick. I wouldn't count on Biden bullying her necessarily, though Biden plays more to classical stereo types of what VP's and Presidents look like. On the other hand I have doubts that McCain will really pick up Hilary votes because of the pick.

My opinion is that I think we should at least sleep better knowing that Mitt Romney has no prayer of ever becoming president.
 
I must admit though the prospect (in the event that McCain cannot serve out his term) that the country would be run by an ex-beauty queen makes for interesting plot development material.
 
LowlyPion said:
I must admit though the prospect (in the event that McCain cannot serve out his term) that the country would be run by an ex-beauty queen makes for interesting plot development material.

Hey, if the US goes down, I want to go down lookin gooooood :biggrin:
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
Hey, if the US goes down, I want to go down lookin gooooood :biggrin:

So what happens now to the ads about Obama being a rock star but is he ready to lead, when McCain chooses an ex-beauty queen, with limited experience running a state as a governor? Does he really value this ready to lead thing seriously if he shows such little regard for it in his own choices?
 
McCain has made much of Obama's inexperience - now he's got someone younger with less experience on the ticket. Is he going to get a free pass on that just because of her gender? For all his self-proclaimed foreign policy experience, McCain has never seemed to be able to make accurate distinctions between Shiites and Sunnis, between Iraqi insurgents and al Qaeda, and even between the Iranians and al Qaeda. That's pretty scary coming from somebody who wants to continue current Middle East policies.

Contrasts between Biden and Palin should throw the foreign-policy experiences of these two tickets in high relief.
 
Positive:

She will steal a number of Hillary supporters.

Negative:

No experience. That will make it hard for McCain to attack Obama on that issue.

Conclusion:

Ok, but not brilliant.
 
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  • #11
Given such low expectations about Sarah Palin, then she is sure to exceed expectations.
 
  • #12
My first thought was he's old enough to be her father. Why didn't he pick Sen Kay Bailey Huchinson instead?
 
  • #13
Could it be that Mcain was influenced by a late night episode on the E! channel of Saturday Night Live?
 

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  • #14
LowlyPion said:
Apparently she is a maverick. I wouldn't count on Biden bullying her necessarily, though Biden plays more to classical stereo types of what VP's and Presidents look like. On the other hand I have doubts that McCain will really pick up Hilary votes because of the pick.

My opinion is that I think we should at least sleep better knowing that Mitt Romney has no prayer of ever becoming president.

Definitely good that he didn't pick up Romney! Romney was probably about the only possible VP pick from either party that could have swayed my opinion. In spite of that, I kind of expected Romney to be the pick simply because he could help in three battleground states: Michigan, Colorado, and Nevada.

Palin is a good pick for a lot of reasons. As far as picking up disgruntled Hillary supporters, she'll pick all the ones that either don't take a close enough look to realize she's pro-life or the ones that really don't consider abortion a major issue.

It's a pick surprising enough that it steals a little thunder from the Democratic Convention.
 
  • #15
BobG said:
Palin is a good pick for a lot of reasons. As far as picking up disgruntled Hillary supporters, she'll pick all the ones that either don't take a close enough look to realize she's pro-life or the ones that really don't consider abortion a major issue.
Palin might help McCain with some of the conservatives that are disenchanted with him. The fact that she carried a Down syndrome baby to term instead of opting for an abortion is a pretty strong statement to the pro-lifers.
 
  • #16
BobG said:
Definitely good that he didn't pick up Romney! Romney was probably about the only possible VP pick from either party that could have swayed my opinion. In spite of that, I kind of expected Romney to be the pick simply because he could help in three battleground states: Michigan, Colorado, and Nevada.
McCain doesn't trust Romney one bit - that much was clear from the Primaries. On not picking Romney, I was correct in calling this last week.

Palin is a good pick for a lot of reasons. As far as picking up disgruntled Hillary supporters, she'll pick all the ones that either don't take a close enough look to realize she's pro-life or the ones that really don't consider abortion a major issue.
There's no way they won't realize she is pro-life, I think that will definitely. On picking Palin, I guessed, about 3 months ago, that she wouldn't be interested, but I was wrong.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1745302&post1745301

Palin is is more than just devoutly pro-life. Her decision to have a fifth baby at age 44 - after an early diagnosis revealed that the child would have Down Syndrome - definitely has the potential to be very polarizing.

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/382560.html
 
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  • #17
LowlyPion said:
I must admit though the prospect (in the event that McCain cannot serve out his term) that the country would be run by an ex-beauty queen makes for interesting plot development material.
Hard to not notice a trend with ex-beauty queens.
 
  • #18
To complement their perceived weaknesses, both candidates seem to have picked an opposite within their own party. On the Democratic side, I think the VP would be effective to temper and influence the president. On the Republican side, I don't.
 
  • #19
turbo-1 said:
McCain has made much of Obama's inexperience - now he's got someone younger with less experience on the ticket.

Well, I think there are at least two relevant differences - it's the #2 spot, not the #1 spot, and it's executive experience for an executive office.
 
  • #20
BobG said:
It's a pick surprising enough that it steals a little thunder from the Democratic Convention.

That's today's headlines. A rather dubious reason once it's yesterday's news.

Sadly that's the business as usual of the current Bush-Cheney-Rove administration and their reliance on appearance over substance, while they ply their agenda of enriching the few and denying the endemic problems of the rest of those they are nominally supposed to represent as well.
 
  • #21
Gokul43201 said:
McCain doesn't trust Romney one bit -

That's because he knows Romney. I'd say not picking Romney shows that he is capable of making good decisions. There's enough insincerity in Washington without having to import his brand of it.

There's no way they won't realize she is pro-life, ...

And she is a member of the NRA. Beauty queen, NRA, pro-life - a real trifecta. I suspect the Hilary crowd will not find enough to like when they get in the booth.

I'd say her choice is more to assuage the concerns of the far right on the moral agenda and to energize their participation as well as bolster his own appearance of sincerely in wanting to change things in Washington.
 
  • #22
In Palin's defense, she's no Dan Quayle.

I reckon with 5 kids, she knows how to spell.
 
  • #23
Defennder said:
My first thought was he's old enough to be her father. Why didn't he pick Sen Kay Bailey Huchinson instead?
See my comment - https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1850422&postcount=117

Interesting that he didn't pick Lisa Murkowski, who is the daughter of the former incumbent governor Frank Murkowski, who was beaten by Sarah Palin in 2006 gubernatorial election.

Apparently his appointment of his daughter as Alaska's junior US senator (in 2002) did not go over too well in Alaska.
 
  • #24
BobG said:
Definitely good that he didn't pick up Romney! Romney was probably about the only possible VP pick from either party that could have swayed my opinion. .

LowlyPion said:
My opinion is that I think we should at least sleep better knowing that Mitt Romney has no prayer of ever becoming president.

whats wrong with Romney? i think that he would have been a better choice for mccain. or maybe not, just because he's mormon
 
  • #25
proton said:
whats wrong with Romney? i think that he would have been a better choice for mccain. or maybe not, just because hes mormon

Answered your own question.
 
  • #26
Who is this woman Palin anyways. I've never even heard of her before now. He picked her only because she's a woman. Probably so that he could take away some obama votes from hillary supporters. I struggle to believe that any of these women would vote for McCain just to put a woman in the white house, but then again the general public are morons.
 
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  • #27
If it worked for http://tvseriesfinale.com/articles/commander-in-chief-geena-davis-president-will-return/"...
 
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  • #28
Cyrus said:
Who is this woman Palin anyways. I've never even heard of her before now. He picked her only because she's a woman. Probably so that he could take away some obama votes from hillary supporters. I struggle to believe that any of these women would vote for McCain just to put a woman in the white house, but then again the general public are morons.

Yes, I agree, his choice had a sexist element to it. And some women (PUMAs, for example) will vote for McCain mostly because of her gender - they're also sexist.

Funny thing, when the struggle for gender equality began many men said women were too emotional, and couldn't be logical in a tough situation. And here we are all these years later, and these PUMAs are, well, too emotional and they aren't being logical after a tough loss, IMO.

I can only imagine how they will feel when the next 1, 2, or 3 Supreme Court nominees are chosen...
 
  • #29
Why don't we just elect a Black Atheist lesbian woman into office so we can finally put to rest all this PC nonsense.
 
  • #30
lisab said:
Yes, I agree, his choice had a sexist element to it. And some women (PUMAs, for example) will vote for McCain mostly because of her gender - they're also sexist.

Funny thing, when the struggle for gender equality began many men said women were too emotional, and couldn't be logical in a tough situation. And here we are all these years later, and these PUMAs are, well, too emotional and they aren't being logical after a tough loss, IMO.

I can only imagine how they will feel when the next 1, 2, or 3 Supreme Court nominees are chosen...

Why do they care so much? WHO CARES if the next supreme court justices have a penis.

Just put someone in there that's GOOD. What the hell do I care if he's black/white/gay/man/woman or any other STUPID criteria.

What's so great about her being a woman? Someone, anyone please give me a valid reason.
 
  • #32
turbo-1 said:
McCain has made much of Obama's inexperience - now he's got someone younger with less experience on the ticket. Is he going to get a free pass on that just because of her gender?
I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about this, but there is very real, practical reason why experience matters less for her: she's the vicepresidential candidate.

Oh, and less experience than who, at what? Who has more experience between her and Obama depends on what political experience you choose to count. Overall, though, she's been in public office about twice as long as Obama has.
 
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  • #33
russ_watters said:
I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about this, but there is very real, practical reason why experience matters less for her: she's the vicepresidential candidate.

Why does that excuse not having experience? Do you want the guy one below the CEO not having any experience?

I want the best of the best of the best.

This is like the time G.W. tried to put that woman as a justice who had NO EXPERINCE in anything related to the law, and the congress was like...uh...NO. Just being a woman isn't going to fly, dubya. (I think she was a school teacher or something rediculously stupid)
 
  • #34
russ_watters said:
I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about this, but there is very real, practical reason why experience matters less for her: she's the vicepresidential candidate.
That's true, Russ, but it becomes a bit more of an issue when McCain's advanced age and his recurring battles with cancer figure in. She could easily become a very young, inexperienced president with no track record in national politics, foreign affairs, and macro-economics. A rookie governor from a sparsely-populated state with significant oil revenues might have a bit of trouble gearing up to running the executive branch of the US.
 
  • #35
proton said:
whats wrong with Romney? i think that he would have been a better choice for mccain. or maybe not, just because he's mormon

There's a certain amount of reconsideration of one's past positions done by every candidate when politically expedient, so Romney's downside is a matter of magnitude rather than conceptual. By time Romney was done with his transformation, I was left with the feeling he had no beliefs or principles at all.
 
  • #36
Cyrus said:
Why does that excuse not having experience?
I'm saying that makes experience less important than with the President.
Do you want the guy one below the CEO not having any experience?
I would absolutely expect a VP of a company to have less experience than a CEO. In fact, I'd hope the CEO was a VP first before being CEO! Since that's not as feasible for a President, the more common experience that is weighed heavily is governor, since it is executive branch experience.
 
  • #37
MSNBC & Palin said:
She also referred favorably to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who drew 18 million votes in her unsuccessful run against Obama for the Democratic nomination.

"But it turns out the women of America aren't finished yet and we can shatter that glass ceiling once and for all," she said.

I wonder if she reads http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20080826
 
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  • #38
Hmmm...this is weird. McCain picked her despite this...

I was reading the wiki article on Palin, and found this little piece.
wiki said:
On July 11, 2008, Palin dismissed Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan for not adequately filling state trooper vacancies, and because he "did not turn out to be a team player on budgeting issues."[50] She instead offered him a position as executive director of the state Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, which he turned down.[51][52] Her power to fire him is not in dispute, but Monegan alleged that his dismissal may have been an abuse of power tied to his reluctance to fire Palin's former brother-in-law, Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister, Molly McCann.[53] In 2006, before Palin was governor, Wooten was suspended for five days[54] for threatening to kill McCann's (and Palin's) father, tasering his 11-year-old stepson, drinking beer in his squad car, and violating game laws.

Palin said that her dismissal of Monegan was unrelated to the fact that he had not fired Wooten. Palin said that members of her staff had made contact with public safety officials regarding the trooper, though she said that her staff's contacts with the commission were not directed by her and she had little knowledge of them.[55] Palin replaced Monegan with Chuck Kopp, who had allegedly sexually harassed an employee.[56][57]

In August 2008, the Alaska Legislature hired Steve Branchflower to investigate Palin and her staff for possible abuse of power surrounding the dismissal.[58] Democratic State Senator Hollis French, who is overseeing the investigation, says that the Palin administration has been cooperating and that subpoenas are unnecessary.[59]

I searched Google News for some of the keywords there and this was the first hit.

Anchorage Daily News said:
Palin launches Monegan inquiry ahead of special investigation

Gov. Sarah Palin is trying to find out what the Legislature's special investigator might discover as he probes her controversial firing of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan.

Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg has launched an inquiry at the governor's request, including interviews with state public safety officials. The attorney general's involvement has started before the special investigator newly hired by the Legislature, Steve Branchflower, has had a chance to dive into his work.
...
But critics of the governor ...have raised the specter of "witness tampering." Some legislators said it doesn't look good for the attorney general to get involved.

"I think it is harmful to the credibility of the administration, harmful to the process and harmful to all the parties involved," said Fairbanks Republican Rep. Jay Ramras, chair of the House Judiciary Committee. "It's just the worst possible thing to be doing."

Ramras said Colberg is honest but might be naïve. He needs to be very careful to avoid his review having any appearance of tampering with witnesses, Ramras said.

http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492077.html

More interesting tidbits from Anchorage Daily News:
'Creation science' enters the race

The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.

Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
...
In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."
...
The Republican Party of Alaska platform says, in its section on education: "We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory."

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/8347904p-8243554c.html

After that change of course towards the middle, and McCain steering to the right on the same issue, they are now nearly in lock-step on what they say should be done.

Arizona Daily Star said:
Daily Star: Should intelligent design be taught in schools?

McCain: I think that there has to be all points of view presented. But they've got to be thoroughly presented. So to say that you can only teach one line of thinking I don't think is - or one belief on how people and the world was created - I think there's nothing wrong with teaching different schools of thought.

Daily Star: Does it belong in science?

McCain: There's enough scientists that believe it does. I'm not a scientist. This is something that I think all points of view should be presented.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/opinion/90521
 
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  • #39
russ_watters said:
I'm saying that makes experience less important than with the President.

Doesnt this lady have like 2 years as governor of Alaska? That's pretty slim experience. What's her resume even look like?

I would absolutely expect a VP of a company to have less experience than a CEO. In fact, I'd hope the CEO was a VP first before being CEO! Since that's not as feasible for a President, the more common experience that is weighed heavily is governor, since it is executive branch experience.

I don't think that's necessarily true. A CEO and VP can be nearly match in experience, one is just a better leader than the other.

In any even, I'd really like to hear what qualifications makes her stand out from the other choices McCain had on the table.


From wiki: "Palin holds a bachelor of arts degree in journalism from the University of Idaho."

I think I'd want someone smarter than that...

While running for Governor of Alaska, Palin supported the teaching of bothcreationism and evolution in public schools;[41] however, she noted that "creationism doesn't have to be part of the curriculum" and that she would not use "religion as a litmus test, or anybody's personal opinion on evolution or creationism" as criteria for selection to the school board.[41]

Also from wiki......yikes. No thank you. Let's try nominating smart educated people for office.

She's a religious right nutjob. She's also against gay marriage and abortion.
 
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  • #40
They love her in Alaska. She has something like 80-90% approval rating.

Personally, I like the idea of a moose-hunting ex-beauty queen for VP.
 
  • #41
This will be over faster than than... God, I suck at this. It will be over fast, okay?

E2HSMvqluT0[/youtube] [PLAIN]http:...Wi6yTVfPyJeiTBsQ33SSUiobt8wD92I9NIO0[/PLAIN]
 
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  • #42
Math Is Hard said:
They love her in Alaska. She has something like 80-90% approval rating.

Personally, I like the idea of a moose-hunting ex-beauty queen for VP.

OMG! I'll bet Palin is a secret member of the PF Sisterhood!
 
  • #43
BobG said:
OMG! I'll bet Palin is a secret member of the PF Sisterhood!

shhhhhh! :wink:
 
  • #44
WarPhalange said:
This will be over faster than than... God, I suck at this. It will be over fast, okay?

E2HSMvqluT0[/youtube] [PLAIN]htt... stays out of the few hairs left on his head.
 
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  • #45
Cyrus said:
This is like the time G.W. tried to put that woman as a justice who had NO EXPERINCE in anything related to the law, and the congress was like...uh...NO. Just being a woman isn't going to fly, dubya. (I think she was a school teacher or something rediculously stupid)

Not true.

Her name was (and is) Harriet Meirs, who was a lawyer in private practice for almost 30 years, was president of the Texas bar association and at the time of her appointment was White House Counsel. She was recommended as O'Connor's successor by none other than Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate (then) Minority Leader.

GWB has done many things deserving of criticism. However, untrue or made-up examples don't serve to advance this point.
 
  • #46
Vanadium 50 said:
Not true.

Her name was (and is) Harriet Meirs, who was a lawyer in private practice for almost 30 years, was president of the Texas bar association and at the time of her appointment was White House Counsel. She was recommended as O'Connor's successor by none other than Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate (then) Minority Leader.

GWB has done many things deserving of criticism. However, untrue or made-up examples don't serve to advance this point.

Yep your right. I'm sorry. I was recalling what I saw on John Stewart and I got it wrong here's what he said:

So they went with Harriet Miers, a woman who's never been a judge. And has no reputation as a legal scholar. But the President felt very confident she had the one quality that matters.

http://www.crocuta.net/Dean/Jon_Stewart_on_Harriet_Miers_Oct20_2005.htm

So, the woman had no experience as a Judge. I just remembered it was something significant she was missing in terms of qualifications.
 
  • #47
Cyrus said:
So, the woman had no experience as a Judge.

Neither did Earl Warren. If you want a historical example, neither did John Marshall.
 
  • #48
proton said:
whats wrong with Romney? i think that he would have been a better choice for mccain. or maybe not, just because he's mormon

Without casting aspersions on his religion, I would note his propensity for posturing and image over substance. His weather vane like stands determined apparently more by the wind than deep seated conviction. Against abortion in his failed Senate bid against Ted Kennedy, until he ran for Governor of Massachusetts, then he was OK with it and then against it on the primary circuit this year.

I think there are enough of those kinds of people pretending to represent interests and positions when the only interest they apparently hold dear is their own advancement.
 
  • #49
turbo-1 said:
She could easily become a very young, inexperienced president with no track record in national politics, foreign affairs, and macro-economics.

In this regard I might think it to be a plus. I rather think Bush has already demonstrated that just about anyone can hold the office and the country can survive.
 

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