Honoring El Hajj Malik El Shabazz on 40th Anniversary

[klusener]

Is there anything planned for this day in the US? like a parade in Washington DC or something? El Hajj Malik El Shabazz was killed on this day 40 years ago.. You know it would be pathetic if nothing special happened in the US on the day, because I know of events planned even in India, Africa, and China, but even though I know he fought for dark-skinned people all over the world, he sacrificed himself so the black people in US could be free, but he has been forgotten by many.. The media portrays him as an evil racist and MLK as the angelic man.. Even yesterday, I was in a chatroom and I asked this same question and this white American person asked me who is that? isn't he the guy who killed white people? I realize that it just shows that guy's ignorance, but still you got to have one iota of respect for that man even if you don't know his life history..

p.s. this is not blind hero worship on my part, I seriously believe in his ideology, but there are some parts even I don't agree with...

 

[franznietzsche]

It happens to be President's day. Day before George Washington's birthday (national obersvance is on the monday closest to his birthday).

We also used to observe lincoln's b-day. But then they just combined the observance with washington's. Cesar chavez gets his own day, but lincoln doesn't .

You know, when speaking to americans, just call him Malcolm X, i had to google to actually figure out who it was, and i know the average american will not even try that much. Most all of us will recognize the name Malcolm X however.

alcolm was arrested on January 12, 1946 at the age of 20 and sentenced to eight to ten years imprisonment on charges of breaking and entering, carrying firearms, and larceny. On the street he was known as Detroit Red, a small time hustler (pimping & drug dealing). He later earned the nickname Satan in the Charlestown State Prison for his constant cursing, especially of God and the Bible.

...

Later in the year, following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Malcolm delivered a speech as he regularly would. However, when asked to comment upon the assassination, he replied that it was a case of "chickens coming home to roost" – that the violence that JFK had failed and at times refused to reign in had come around to claim his life. Most explosively, he then added that with his country origins, "Chickens coming home to roost never made me sad. It only made me glad."

...

The NOI considered itself to be a black nationalist group which supported the idea of a separate Black nation within the United States

So let's see...he was glad the president got killed, he was a separatist, and a petty felon. (not that i didn't already know any of this already). Hmmm, I'm thinking the answer to your question is no. While he might be celebrated by some, he will never be honoured by our government, and with good reason.

 

[Evo]

Small groups of people may acknowledge Malcom X, but no national recognition. February is "Black History Month" in the US, and that's about it for recognition.

 

[klusener]

franz, this just shows your ignorance again, malik shabazz was a felon, when he was in detroit trying to be like white people, then in prison, he gets letters from Elijah about Nation of Islam and he sees every incident in his life, his father being murdered by white racists and his mother being tortured into insanity by whites, all of these were simply justified by the NOI philosophy, but in 1964 he goes to Mecca for his hajj, there he sees Muslims from blonde-haired to blue-eyed to dark-skinned, then he realizes that he has made a mistake in generalizing all white people as evil. When he comes home he cuts himself off from the NOI and starts Muslim Mosque Inc. which stated that anybody, any race can help in solving the black man's problem in America.. Without completely knowing about him, don't post things like this, i would advise you read his autobiography or go to www.brothermalcolm.net, it has a collection of his speeches.. In prison, this person you are calling a "petty felon" single-handedly beat the vising Harvard and MIT visiting debating teams. But please, without fully knowing and understanding his ideology please don't post things like this, which has to be classifed as pure ignorance and bigotry on your part...

 

[klusener]

Here are some excellent speeches that he made at the end of his life that I hope will clear up your misconceptions:

Separation from NOI

- Press conference about his separation from NOI thought process, but also states his belief in the right of any oppressed people to fight back to get freedom and justice against any oppressor.

Extremisim in the defence of liberty: debate at Oxford

The Black Revolution: Part 1

The Black Revolution: Part 2

 

[russ_watters]

Just to be clear here, (I don't know much about him), you're saying he should be celebrated for the things he did in the last year of his life, and everything else should just be forgotten? Can you see why some people might have some difficulty accepting that?

 

[klusener]

No I am not saying that he should be celebrated for just the last year of his life, I am saying he should be celebrated for his actions, even when he thought that all whites were evil (you should understand why considering his early life), his actions positively affected black or I should say dark-skinned people all over the world, for us, here was a man who was saying we should be proud of our heritage and culture and not just keep saying "yes massa, ok massa" to the white man. We rose from the shadows of our white oppressors to actually start independence movements against the white man/oppressor, partly due to Malcom's teaching, the oppressed used any means necessary to obtain their justice and freedom. Once he also cleared up his beliefs in his Islam, he still continued energizing and educating us dark-skinned people by creating the OAAU, I don't have time to educate you (russ) about these organizations, if you want you can search for them in google. But this time around, he actually encouraged white people to help the blacks (well actually, he said that whites could help even when he was with NOI, but not come in and then just take up the leadership positions and give the servial positions to the black people). Malcolm, Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba, Kenyatta and the rest, all of them combined to bring about independence for most of Africa and for that again I have huge respect for all of them. I understand that you don't know that much about us Africans and Asians, basically us dark-skinned people, but again please inform and educate yourself before coming in here and posting these posts with a sort of a "I will show him" attitude...

 

[franznietzsche]

franz, this just shows your ignorance again

I bow down to your infinitie superiorirty and wisdom, oh 'one who is so much smarter than me'

malik shabazz was a felon, when he was in detroit trying to be like white people, then in prison, he gets letters from Elijah about Nation of Islam and he sees every incident in his life, his father being murdered by white racists and his mother being tortured into insanity by whites

Yup, cause us white folks are the devil. I eat them non-whites for breakfast three days a week doncha know.

, but in 1964 he goes to Mecca for his hajj, there he sees Muslims from blonde-haired to blue-eyed to dark-skinned, then he realizes that he has made a mistake in generalizing all white people as evil.

Hallejulah, I've been spared from his wrath.

When he comes home he cuts himself off from the NOI and starts Muslim Mosque Inc. which stated that anybody, any race can help in solving the black man's problem in America..

Fair enough, I've got no argument with that.

Without completely knowing about him, don't post things like this, i would advise you read his autobiography or go to www.brothermalcolm.net, it has a collection of his speeches..

Autobios are better known as "self-serving propaganda"

[QUOTE}In prison, this person you are calling a "petty felon" single-handedly beat the vising Harvard and MIT visiting debating teams.[/QUOTE]

I never said he wasn't an intelligent man. "Petty felon" is a person guilty of petty crimes. I used the term, because he did, to his credit, reform himself. And his crimes (that he was convicted of anyway) were petty.

But please, without fully knowing and understanding his ideology please don't post things like this, which has to be classifed as pure ignorance and bigotry on your part...

Umm...right..ok then. How about you learn to actually understand what people say to you, instead of being a moron and accusing me of 'ignorance and bigotry'. I don't give a flying rats ass what his skin color is.

FACT: He was a separatist.

FACT: He was a petty felon. Intelligent, but still a petty felon. He committed petty crimes when he was young, that makes him, a petty felon.

FACT: He said he was glad JFK got killed.

Sure, he was motivated about a real problem of his day, and wanted to fix it. I can respect that. But being militant and seperatist, and being publicly glad about the death of an american president, who on his death had a large agenda of civil rights legislation he wanted to pass, that inevitably was pased by his successor, is the wrong way to do it.

So you can go shove your self-righteous nastiness right up where the sun don't shine.

 

[klusener]

I never said i was superior, don't claim that i said something that i didn't.


Yup, cause us white folks are the devil. I eat them non-whites for breakfast three days a week doncha know.

I never made a racist argument, I said that racist whites, i didn't say whites, because I knew you would accuse me of racism if i did that, but amazingly you still accuse me of racism, when i never generalized all white people. I say racist, because the whites i am talking about were the Black Legion ( a part of the KKK ) and if you label me as a racist because i called the KKK racist, that in turn means you are a racist, because I am sure that no sane white person or any person for that matter would disagree with me that the KKK were racist.

, but in 1964 he goes to Mecca for his hajj, there he sees Muslims from blonde-haired to blue-eyed to dark-skinned, then he realizes that he has made a mistake in generalizing all white people as evil.

In your first post, you seemed to have thought that Malcolm was a racist from the time that he was born to the time that he was shot, I wanted to point out that he changed his ideology of racism after he went to Mecca.

FACT: He was a separatist.

There is nothing wrong with being a separatist if you are fighting for justice, equality and liberty.

FACT: He was a petty felon. Intelligent, but still a petty felon. He committed petty crimes when he was young, that makes him, a petty felon.

I never said he wasn't a felon, but you get to respect the fact that he changed from such a petty background into a respectable man.

So you can go shove your self-righteous nastiness right up where the sun don't shine.

Thank you for supplying a nice and respectable image of yourself.

 

[franznietzsche]

PLease use quote tags, they're not that complicated and make your post infinitely easier to read.

I never said i was superior, don't claim that i said something that i didn't.

Its implied in referring to someone as ignorant. You're either implying you're superior, or just as ignorant. Take your pick.

I never made a racist argument, I said that racist whites, i didn't say whites, because I knew you would accuse me of racism if i did that, but amazingly you still accuse me of racism, when i never generalized all white people. I say racist, because the whites i am talking about were the Black Legion ( a part of the KKK ) and if you label me as a racist because i called the KKK racist, that in turn means you are a racist, because I am sure that no sane white person or any person for that matter would disagree with me that the KKK were racist.

I don't ever actually recall saying that.

Yes the KKK racist. Yes the people who killed his father were racist (actually i don't know this, but its what you said, and i have no reason to doubt this part), i was replying to the part about his "mother being driven insane by whites". Which is a racist statement because it implies that it was because they're were white that they drove her insane.

In your first post, you seemed to have thought that Malcolm was a racist from the time that he was born to the time that he was shot, I wanted to point out that he changed his ideology of racism after he went to Mecca.

So we should forgive Strom Thurmound(sp?) too?

There is nothing wrong with being a separatist if you are fighting for justice, equality and liberty.

If you're fighting for a racist state that promotes your race over others there is.

I never said he wasn't a felon, but you get to respect the fact that he changed from such a petty background into a respectable man.

Grammar issues with that statement aside, he did not become a respectable man. He became a man with respectable attritbutes to be sure, but i do not consider him on the whole to be 'respectable'.

Thank you for supplying a nice and respectable image of yourself.

I don't hide who or what i am, unlike other people.

 

[Evo]

Let's all remain calm.

Malcom X was honored by the US Postal service on a stamp in the Black Heritage series. http://www.usps.com/images/stamps/99/malcolmx.htm

Honestly though klusener, regardless of any good he did, I doubt that in the US Malcom X will ever be considered a national hero on the level with Martin Luther King, who does have a national holiday in his honor.

 

[klusener]

Didn't MLK follow Gandhian/Indian principles of peace and love?

i was replying to the part about his "mother being driven insane by whites". Which is a racist statement because it implies that it was because they're were white that they drove her insane.

But what else can i say? white people tortured his mother and they told her that they were going to rip her family apart, so she could never see her children again, and she was a loving parent so she couldn't bear it. But seriously, do you expect me to change facts and not say white because it is too harsh for your ears.

Anyway, try to be peaceful and not make personal attacks. We are discussing, hopefully civilly, about a man and his ideology, but we are not talking about each other.

 

[franznietzsche]

Didn't MLK follow Gandhian/Indian principles of peace and love?

Which is why he gets a holiday, and Malcolm doesn't.

Were Malcolm's goals honorable? To some extent. But his desired methods were unacceptable.

But what else can i say? white people tortured his mother and they told her that they were going to rip her family apart, so she could never see her children again, and she was a loving parent so she couldn't bear it. But seriously, do you expect me to change facts and not say white because it is too harsh for your ears.

You could qualify them as being racist whites, but you didn't. I didn't say change the facts, I'm saying you should give all the facts. I object to languages which personifies a racist attitude.

[/satire]

Anyway, try to be peaceful

The irony is side-splitting.

 

[klusener]

It is.. I say be peaceful when our objectives are nothing more than talking about a man, but don't be peaceful when your liberty or freedom is at stake..

Also, remember I never made any personal statements against you, while you proceeded to attack me. My grandma always said that if people can't defend their points clearly, they resort to name-calling and such petty tactics, but that's another story for another day..

 

[klusener]

But seriously, take a moment or so when you can and listen to his speeches. Don't just shrug it away, because you seem to not like him now, maybe you will find him more acceptable after you listen to him telling his ideology, rather than me telling about his ideology.

 

[franznietzsche]

It is.. I say be peaceful when our objectives are nothing more than talking about a man, but don't be peaceful when your liberty or freedom is at stake..

Also, remember I never made any personal statements against you, while you proceeded to attack me. My grandma always said that if people can't defend their points clearly, they resort to name-calling and such petty tactics, but that's another story for another day..

Actually, i don't remeber that, let's examine the record:

It happens to be President's day. Day before George Washington's birthday (national obersvance is on the monday closest to his birthday).

We also used to observe lincoln's b-day. But then they just combined the observance with washington's. Cesar chavez gets his own day, but lincoln doesn't .

You know, when speaking to americans, just call him Malcolm X, i had to google to actually figure out who it was, and i know the average american will not even try that much. Most all of us will recognize the name Malcolm X however.

So let's see...he was glad the president got killed, he was a separatist, and a petty felon. (not that i didn't already know any of this already). Hmmm, I'm thinking the answer to your question is no. While he might be celebrated by some, he will never be honoured by our government, and with good reason.

Hmm. nope i didn't call you any names. No ad hominem attacks. Some not friendly remarks about Malcolm, but that's about it.

Let's see your first response:

franz, this just shows your ignorance again, malik shabazz was a felon, when he was in detroit trying to be like white people, then in prison, he gets letters from Elijah about Nation of Islam and he sees every incident in his life, his father being murdered by white racists and his mother being tortured into insanity by whites, all of these were simply justified by the NOI philosophy, but in 1964 he goes to Mecca for his hajj, there he sees Muslims from blonde-haired to blue-eyed to dark-skinned, then he realizes that he has made a mistake in generalizing all white people as evil. When he comes home he cuts himself off from the NOI and starts Muslim Mosque Inc. which stated that anybody, any race can help in solving the black man's problem in America.. Without completely knowing about him, don't post things like this, i would advise you read his autobiography or go to www.brothermalcolm.net, it has a collection of his speeches.. In prison, this person you are calling a "petty felon" single-handedly beat the vising Harvard and MIT visiting debating teams. But please, without fully knowing and understanding his ideology please don't post things like this, which has to be classifed as pure ignorance and bigotry on your part...

Which would mean this statement of yours:

Also, remember I never made any personal statements against you, while you proceeded to attack me. My grandma always said that if people can't defend their points clearly, they resort to name-calling and such petty tactics

Is total bull****.

Now I'm all for not bickering like a couple of school girls, but you're the one who started the personal attacks. So don't try to twist the record, its all right there.

 

[franznietzsche]

But seriously, take a moment or so when you can and listen to his speeches. Don't just shrug it away, because you seem to not like him now, maybe you will find him more acceptable after you listen to him telling his ideology, rather than me telling about his ideology.

Not likely. I'm still on something of a crusade against MEChA, a hispanic supremast organization with similar goals and attitudes to NOI.

As for his change of attitude later in life, that may or may not be a different matter.

 

[russ_watters]

No I am not saying that he should be celebrated for just the last year of his life, I am saying he should be celebrated for his actions, even when he thought that all whites were evil (you should understand why considering his early life), his actions positively affected black or I should say dark-skinned people all over the world, for us, here was a man who was saying we should be proud of our heritage and culture and not just keep saying "yes massa, ok massa" to the white man.

Well, I can understand why he thought whites were evil - and by the same token, you should understand why he's not given a national holiday. The reasons are pretty much the same. He did (said) good things and bad things. You like him for the good things, I don't like him for the bad things.

And while I don't know about people outside the US, he's generally considered to be less of a positive influence on black equality than Dr. K. And again, for the same reason: Dr. K didn't preach hatred. He was a uniter (preaching equality). X was a divider.

 

[klusener]

I'm sorry what i said during that time, I shouldn't have gotten emotional. Shabazz used to say that that was the key thing when you are talking to people, always maintain your nerve and not give into your emotions, that's why everytime he spoke, he always won over supporters.

 

[klusener]

Well, I can understand why he thought whites were evil - and by the same token, you should understand why he's not given a national holiday. The reasons are pretty much the same. He did (said) good things and bad things. You like him for the good things, I don't like him for the bad things.

And while I don't know about people outside the US, he's generally considered to be less of a positive influence on black equality than Dr. K. And again, for the same reason: Dr. K didn't preach hatred. He was a uniter (preaching equality). X was a divider.

Oh, I would completely disagree with you when you say Malik was a divider. His main objective was to unite, not divide all dark-skinned people of the world. That's why he went to the OAU in Africa and pleaded before them to help their fellow brethren in America ( who were still being lynched ), after the speech he gave at the OAU trying to unite the Africans with the African living in America, the Africans brought up a resolution about the racism and segregation in the US in the UN, but because of very low interest and even some opposition from MLK, Roy Wilkins, and those people, the resolution was not given much interest. So what do you see right there, Malik tried to united Africans and MLK, to some extent, divided them. If you want more information on these things, I can give you a list of books, not written by Malcolm, but outsiders, even white perspectives on the struggle. But I am sure, you will not be interested.

Malik did preach equality, remember that he felt that all people were equal no matter their race or color, the only thing that he did different than MLK was that he preached an "eye for an eye" philosophy and MLK preached gandhi's philosophy. Remember Gandhi's quote of " An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind ". (Sometimes I just love that old indian man, he was just so awesome ) So both of them had the same objective of equality, but their means to do it were different.

But I agree with you when you say that I like for him the good things, and you hate him for the bad things. It is true, because the good things meant independence for my people, but the bad things ( Can you please elaborate on this please, when I am writing this I am thinking that you are referring to when he said that blacks had the right to kill the racist whites, when that black man was doing nothing more than protesting peacefully under the rights that the gov. gave him and the racist whites were turning on hoses and sending dogs that ripped the flesh off of children(regarding the demostrations in Alabama) ) meant death for the racist part of your people.

Anyway, I didn't know that Gandhi had so much influence on the American civil rights struggle, how did MLK know Gandhi's beliefs, living in the US and Gandhi died before MLK really took flight in his struggle for rights?

http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/speeches/malcolm_x_ballot.html

Just read this once.

 

[klusener]

RIP

Thank you Malcolm.

 

[so-crates]

Anyway, I didn't know that Gandhi had so much influence on the American civil rights struggle, how did MLK know Gandhi's beliefs, living in the US and Gandhi died before MLK really took flight in his struggle for rights?

Hmm, perhaps Gandhi's daugher went to the US teach her father's pacifist tradition to MLK?

Or maybe MLK took a trip to India to learn from them.

Either that, or maybe Dr. King was actually able to read.

I think one of these possibilities is more likely than the others.

 

[klusener]

When was Gandhi's autobiography translated into english? Maybe King could read Gujarati, who knows right?

 

[franznietzsche]

When was Gandhi's autobiography translated into english? Maybe King could read Gujarati, who knows right?

Or maybe he read the newspapers.