Science in danger? Science persecution in XXI century.

[JaredJames]

That is best achieved by making the idiots legally incapable of voting&achieving positions of power..

Looks like the current situation is a** backwards then!

 

[Shaun_W]

Thanks for the cheers...

My post may have sounded negative but if you have to battle against your computer repairman who thinks that the laws of physics are useless then there are better places for you to be in.

And your computer might not be fixed correctly either.

 

[AlexES16]

Alex, don't you think you're overreacting by a few orders of magnitude? I'll certainly agree that the people who said these things are ignorant and probably foolish. But persecutors? "Persecution" is a strong word. It implies imprisonments, house arrests, and maybe even a bit of torture. A few people spouting their ignorance over lunch isn't persecution, and calling it such minimizes real persecution that scientists faced in earlier times. Heck, we're not even talking about your government cutting science funding. I think that if we point to mere fundamentalist rantings and call it so strong a word as persecution, it's going to make us sound like (forgive me) crybabies.

Persecution was maybe not the proper word and yeah it sounds exagerated.

About my government cutting science funding... well there is practically no science funding.

 

[arunma]

Persecution was maybe not the proper word and yeah it sounds exagerated.

About my government cutting science funding... well there is practically no science funding.

Fair enough.

I admit I know next to nothing about El Salvador. But speaking from a US perspective, I think that a lot of people here overreact to the religious fundamentalists' threats to science. Oh yes, there are certain issues like stem cell research on which a policy-maker's religious views will affect science. But I noticed no negative effects from these guys on my astrophysics research. Actually we lost a bit of funding when Obama came into office.

One of the (indirectly) cool things about the religious fundamentalists is that they tend to be xenophobic, and I can see them funding American science so as to keep us ahead of the rest of the world. I guess they don't know that most of our grad students are from overseas. One will note that while President Obama has basically gutted the American space program, Bush actually wanted to get us back to the moon. I'm not saying that these fundamentalists are good for science, but they're not as bad as many make them out to be.

 

[Danger]

What we need is another good asteroid strike to wipe out the rest of those dinosaurs.

Alex, don't you think you're overreacting by a few orders of magnitude? I'll certainly agree that the people who said these things are ignorant and probably foolish. But persecutors? "Persecution" is a strong word. It implies imprisonments, house arrests, and maybe even a bit of torture.

I agree with Alex; I was beaten up on a regular basis in public school for being an Atheist, with the approval of the teaching staff. In fact, the one time that I fought back to defend myself I was punished for it. People like to call Alberta the bible-belt of Canada, but it's nothing compared to those raving Jesus freaks in southern Ontario.

 

[JaredJames]

I agree with Alex; I was beaten up on a regular basis in public school for being an Atheist, with the approval of the teaching staff. In fact, the one time that I fought back to defend myself I was punished for it. People like to call Alberta the bible-belt of Canada, but it's nothing compared to those raving Jesus freaks in southern Ontario.

So far, Alex appears to want a re-run of the crusades. But this time in favour of science.

Massive over reaction.

Just don't speak to these people (in his case).

In your case, well you clearly went to the wrong school. Did you not tell your parents? Did you not try to move schools?

Next to exporting all these people to a remote island or actually shooting them, they're always going to be around. They don't want to learn or have any interest in science, so it's futile trying to battle it with them.
They are defending their beliefs as we defend science, as irrational as they might be.

Just let them be.

 

[AlexES16]

What we need is another good asteroid strike to wipe out the rest of those dinosaurs.



I agree with Alex; I was beaten up on a regular basis in public school for being an Atheist, with the approval of the teaching staff. In fact, the one time that I fought back to defend myself I was punished for it. People like to call Alberta the bible-belt of Canada, but it's nothing compared to those raving Jesus freaks in southern Ontario.

I went to catholic church but they were very open to it and the other thing is that i never backed down, i spent like 1 year having discussins with my family, and in my school i was ready to fight verbaly or physicaly with people that like to discriminate or irespect freedom.
So i think being ready to fight to dead for your freedom is very important.

Also its looks like catholics are more open than other religious groups, i even have an uncle that is priest and he knows that i am an atheist and he respects it.

Looks this cahtolic priest

Minute 5.45 =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQa6-E8axcE&feature=related

 

[AlexES16]

Fair enough.

I admit I know next to nothing about El Salvador. But speaking from a US perspective, I think that a lot of people here overreact to the religious fundamentalists' threats to science. Oh yes, there are certain issues like stem cell research on which a policy-maker's religious views will affect science. But I noticed no negative effects from these guys on my astrophysics research. Actually we lost a bit of funding when Obama came into office.

One of the (indirectly) cool things about the religious fundamentalists is that they tend to be xenophobic, and I can see them funding American science so as to keep us ahead of the rest of the world. I guess they don't know that most of our grad students are from overseas. One will note that while President Obama has basically gutted the American space program, Bush actually wanted to get us back to the moon. I'm not saying that these fundamentalists are good for science, but they're not as bad as many make them out to be.

Power

 

[AlexES16]

So far, Alex appears to want a re-run of the crusades. But this time in favour of science.

Massive over reaction.

Just don't speak to these people (in his case).

In your case, well you clearly went to the wrong school. Did you not tell your parents? Did you not try to move schools?

Next to exporting all these people to a remote island or actually shooting them, they're always going to be around. They don't want to learn or have any interest in science, so it's futile trying to battle it with them.
They are defending their beliefs as we defend science, as irrational as they might be.

Just let them be.

There is no anti-gay movement or anti-atheist movement or anti-religion movement
there is only anti-freedom movement

words from the AmaizingAtheist of youtube

 

[AlexES16]

My post may have sounded negative but if you have to battle against your computer repairman who thinks that the laws of physics are useless then there are better places for you to be in.

And your computer might not be fixed correctly either.

Nah no problem dude

 

[JaredJames]

words from the AmaizingAtheist of youtube

Firstly, there is a difference between being accepting and being open to discussion on topics of religion and science.

I am an accepting person when it comes to religion. My feelings are simple, believe what you like, it's up to you. Just don't try and force it on me. You give me that courtesy and I will do the same for you.

Despite that, I won't stand for discussion that compares religious texts to scientific texts and put them on equal grounds.

Sounds like you are an atheist fundamentalist. No better than a religious fundamentalist in my opinion.

 

[AlexES16]

What we need is another good asteroid strike to wipe out the rest of those dinosaurs.



In fact, the one time that I fought back to defend myself I was punished for it.

​

Sorry for you comrade atheist

The people in power say not to retaliate becouse they want power for themselfs.

Justice beats Pacifism

 

[AlexES16]

Firstly, there is a difference between being accepting and being open to discussion on topics of religion and science.

I am an accepting person when it comes to religion. Believe what you like, it's up to you. But I won't stand for discussion that compares religious texts be compared to scientific texts and put them on equal grounds.

Sounds like you are an atheist fundamentalist. No better than a religious fundamentalist in my opinion.

Wow! i don't want to destroy religion, it think that would be an athiest fundamentalist. Sense when defending freedom makes you a fundamentalist?

 

[JaredJames]

We're defending freedom now are we?

Bit of a jump from defending atheism.

From what I've read here, people aren't trying to stop you reading science, they just don't want to hear it themselves.

 

[AlexES16]

We're defending freedom now are we?

Bit of a jump from defending atheism.

From what I've read here, people aren't trying to stop you reading science, they just don't want to hear it themselves.

When Rosa Parks was defying racism she also was defying anti-freedom.

If people want to destroy religion, atheism, science or what ever, in the the end they want to destroy freedom and impose themselves, that's my point.

 

[Averagesupernova]

As for the computer repair goes, the bashers of science will just repair computers by doing what they are told. They will probably go down a check list and if it isn't on the list then the computer will be considered junk. They don't likely have a mind that is capable of reasoning out what is wrong with a computer, or anything for that matter. I have some relatives who are super religous and they couldn't fix a bent paper clip. That is why they are religous. They are incapable of figuring out anything on their own so they need to be told how to live, what to believe, etc.

 

[JaredJames]

As for the computer repair goes, the bashers of science will just repair computers by doing what they are told. They will probably go down a check list and if it isn't on the list then the computer will be considered junk. They don't likely have a mind that is capable of reasoning out what is wrong with a computer, or anything for that matter. I have some relatives who are super religous and they couldn't fix a bent paper clip. That is why they are religous. They are incapable of figuring out anything on their own so they need to be told how to live, what to believe, etc.

There are a lot of religious scientists out there. There are very intelligent religious people in all kinds of fields.

You can't claim people are religious because they "are incapable of figuring out anything on their own so they need to be told how to live, what to believe, etc."

Some people don't get the chance to learn. They are indoctrinated throughout their lives.

EDIT: May have mistook your meaning, but I still don't see the connection. There are plenty of non-religious people out there just as incapable.

 

[AlexES16]

Open catholic example

Minute 5.45 =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQa6-...eature=related

 

[JaredJames]

Link doesn't work.

Regardless, what are you trying to prove?

 

[Averagesupernova]

There are a lot of religious scientists out there. There are very intelligent religious people in all kinds of fields.

You can't claim people are religious because they "are incapable of figuring out anything on their own so they need to be told how to live, what to believe, etc."

Some people don't get the chance to learn. They are indoctrinated throughout their lives.

EDIT: May have mistook your meaning, but I still don't see the connection. There are plenty of non-religious people out there just as incapable.

I will admit that there are certainly non-religious people out there that are incapable. But I have found that the majority of the time people who are very religious are not very capable of figuring things out. Of course there are exceptions.

 

[AlexES16]

Link doesn't work.

Regardless, what are you trying to prove?

Sorry this one works =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQa6-E8axcE&feature=related

minute 5.45

 

[JaredJames]

What is your point? What is the relevance of that video?

The bloke being interviewed is simply a religious type who doesn't take the bible literally.

Really not seeing your point here.

 

[AlexES16]

What is your point? What is the relevance of that video?

The bloke being interviewed is simply a religious type who doesn't take the bible literally.

Really not seeing your point here.

Im suporting the point that not all religon people are close minded and that most chatolics i know are like that, so in the end this people being the majority, there is no real danger to science.

 

[JaredJames]

Im suporting the point that not all religon people are close minded and that most chatolics i know are like that, so in the end this people being the majority, there is no real danger to science.

You gauged how closed minded this guy was from that clip?

All he did was tell us that he doesn't believe the bible is to be taken literally. That doesn't indicate his belief in god, it simply means his interpretation of the bible is different to someone elses.

As far as I saw, he never commented on how open to science he was (give me the time reference if he does in case I missed it).

 

[AlexES16]

You gauged how closed minded this guy was from that clip?

All he did was tell us that he doesn't believe the bible is to be taken literally. That doesn't indicate his belief in god, it simply means his interpretation of the bible is different to someone elses.

As far as I saw, he never commented on how open to science he was (give me the time reference if he does in case I missed it).

He dares to criticize his own church, and yes he doesent talk about science but still his open about discussing religion fundamentalism, and you said before there are many people in religion who are smart, and i am impliying than most of them are open like that guy.

 

[Evo]

Religious discussion. Thread closed.