Star Swallowed by Galactic Black Hole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of stars interacting with black holes, specifically focusing on the conditions under which a star can be disrupted and absorbed by a black hole. Participants explore concepts such as the disruption radius, the influence of mass and density on this radius, and the observational implications of such events.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether the point of no return for objects near black holes varies with the mass of the object, suggesting that more massive objects may need to approach closer to be disrupted.
  • One participant references a formula for the disruption radius that indicates it depends on both the mass of the black hole and the mass of the star, noting that a more massive star requires a closer approach to be disrupted.
  • Another participant questions the detectability of events involving swallowed stars, arguing that detection depends on the orientation of the emitted material towards Earth.
  • A later reply discusses the brightness of events based on their alignment with jets from the black hole, suggesting that events seen off-axis may be less luminous and that dormant black holes can still be distinguishable during rare star capture events.
  • One participant points out that the disruption radius is inversely proportional to the cube root of the density of the star, indicating that more compact bodies must approach closer to be disrupted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between mass, density, and disruption radius, with no consensus reached on the implications for detectability of swallowed stars or the characteristics of dormant black holes.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the mass of black holes and stars, the nature of emitted material, and the observational conditions necessary for detecting such events, which remain unresolved.

RJ Emery
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In an article in the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/science/space/21obhole.html" , it was written:

“This is a singular event in the history of mankind,” Dr. Joshua Bloom, an associate professor of astronomy at UC Berkeley, said. “This black hole was otherwise sitting dormant, a star got too close, its gas got ripped apart and in doing so some of it got spit up.”

My question is about objects getting too close to black holes. Does the point of no return vary with the mass of the object? Do more massive objects get caught in the death grip of a black hole further than a smaller object?
 
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RJ Emery said:
In an article in the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/science/space/21obhole.html" , it was written:

“This is a singular event in the history of mankind,” Dr. Joshua Bloom, an associate professor of astronomy at UC Berkeley, said. “This black hole was otherwise sitting dormant, a star got too close, its gas got ripped apart and in doing so some of it got spit up.”

My question is about objects getting too close to black holes. Does the point of no return vary with the mass of the object? Do more massive objects get caught in the death grip of a black hole further than a smaller object?

Here is the paper behind this new story:

http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.3257
also as Report in Science: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/06/15/science.1207150

Right at the beginning of the paper they describe a disruption radius. If the star passes closer than this to the black hole, it will be disrupted and swallowed. They give the formula:

R (MBH / M)^1/3

R = radius of star
MBH = mass of black hole (assumed > a million time M)
M = mass of star.

So yes, it depends on both mass and radius of star. However, a more massive star apparently needs to pass closer to be disrupted and absorbed.

For concreteness, for a star like the sun, and black hole of 10^7 solar masses, the disruption radius is 5 times the event horizon radius.
 
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I have another question:

In the NY Times article, Bloom describes part of the swallowed star as having been "spit up." I presume this material spike fortuitously was pointed in the direction of earth, at which point the emission could be detected.

If other stars were swallowed by this same black hole with a resulting spike pointed away from earth, then we would have no way of detecting such an event.

Thus, while a (galactic) black hole may appear quiescent, it may be anything but. To detect an event, it really depends 1) if a spike occurred from a swallowed star and 2) if it was pointed in our direction.

Is the above reasoning correct?
 
Actually, with a trivial rearrangement, the formula for disruption radius is inversely proportional to the cube root of the density of the passing star. Thus, within the parameters and validity scope of this approximation, the more 'compact' a body, the closer it has to come to be disrupted.
 
RJ Emery said:
I have another question:

In the NY Times article, Bloom describes part of the swallowed star as having been "spit up." I presume this material spike fortuitously was pointed in the direction of earth, at which point the emission could be detected.

If other stars were swallowed by this same black hole with a resulting spike pointed away from earth, then we would have no way of detecting such an event.

Thus, while a (galactic) black hole may appear quiescent, it may be anything but. To detect an event, it really depends 1) if a spike occurred from a swallowed star and 2) if it was pointed in our direction.

Is the above reasoning correct?

Actually, the described event is seen off axis of the jet (year long interaction of jet with matter away from the massive black hole). Events seen closer to on axis are brighter, with short peak luminosity.

An active galaxy nucleus has high background luminosity from regular infall events, flashing very bright when a jet is oriented our way. Thus, a dormant black hole (that has cleared nearby material a long time ago) that sporadically captures a star is quite distinguishable - and very rare. Correction: Dormant black holes are not rare; infall of a star into one is rare - otherwise they wouldn't be dormant.
 
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