Is it possible to have negative joules?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of negative joules, specifically exploring whether negative energy or negative work is possible. Participants examine theoretical and practical examples of negative energy in various contexts, including physics and thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that negative energy or work is possible, questioning the conditions under which this occurs.
  • One example provided is the work done to stop a car, which is considered negative work due to opposing force and displacement.
  • Another example involves gravitational potential energy, where an object at the bottom of a hill can be described as having negative potential energy relative to a reference point at the top.
  • A participant introduces the idea of potential energy being dependent on the orientation of charged particles, suggesting that this can lead to either negative or positive potential energy.
  • There is a discussion about the relativity of negative energy, comparing it to temperature scales that can have negative values but are positive when referenced to absolute zero.
  • One participant raises the concept of negative mass and relates it to the diffusion equation for neutron flux, suggesting that while negative flux could be mathematically derived, it does not hold physical meaning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of negative energy and work, with no consensus reached on the implications or definitions surrounding these concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on reference points for defining negative energy and the potential for confusion in interpreting negative values in different contexts.

DB
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Is it possible to have a negative joule?
 
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Not sure what you are really asking, but the joule is a unit of energy or work. So, is it possible to have a negative energy or do negative work? Yes.
 
Ya that's what I meant, so what would be an example of a Negative Energy/Work

Thanks
 
Two random examples:

The work done to stop a car (by applying the brakes) is negative work since the force and displacement are opposite.

If you take the top of a hill as your reference (zero) point, then the gravitational potential energy of an object at the bottom of the hill would be negative.

And don't forget that usually what is interesting is the change in energy. And that can certainly be negative.
 
Got it, ty
 
another interesting example depends on which way two (oppositely) charged particles are rotating around each other, i.e. clockwise or anticlockwise. we have either negative or positive potential energy
 
Negative energy or work arises from comparing one statepoint to some reference.

Think of temperature scales, such as Centrigrade and Fahrenheit. They both have negative temperatures. But when we consider temperatures in the Kelvin and Rankine scales - with absolute zero as the reference - the temperatures are always positive.

Compared to absloute zero (correct me if I am wrong), everything has positive energy.

Negative energy is a 'relative' term.

One could ask is there such a thing as negative mass. As far as I know, mass is always positive.

Which reminds me of solving the diffusion equation for neutron flux in a reactor. One could select a function and boundary conditions that would give the possibility of a negative flux (or negative numbers of neutrons passing through a unit area per unit time). But a negative number of neutrons does not make sense physically - and a such a solution would clearly be wrong.
 

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