How many ways can you arrange the letters from 'GREEN' with at least one 'E'?

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The discussion focuses on calculating the number of arrangements of the letters in "GREEN" that include at least one 'E'. Initial attempts using permutations and combinations led to confusion due to the repetition of the letter 'E'. A suggested method involves separating the cases into arrangements with one 'E' and those with two 'E's, calculating each separately to avoid overcounting. The correct total is determined to be 27 arrangements, accounting for the indistinct nature of the two 'E's. This approach clarifies the solution while ensuring all conditions are met.
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Homework Statement



In how many ways can the three letters from the word " GREEN " be arranged in a row if atleast one of the letters is "E"

Homework Equations



Permutations Formula

The Attempt at a Solution



The total arrangements without restriction: 5P3/2! = \frac{5!}{2! * 2!}

The number of arrangements in which there is no "E" = 3!

Ans : 5P3/2! - 3! = 24 (wrong)

Here is another approach :

The arrangements with just one "E" = \frac{2!*4!}{2!}
The arrangements with two "E" = \frac{3*2}{1}

I think I making a mistake due to the repetition of "E" ... Can anyone of you tell me a better way which avoids the problem I am being having .
 
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If "at least one letter must be E", that means that the other two letters must be chosen from "GREN". That is, the first letter must be one of those 4 letters, the second one of the three remaining letters. How many is that?

But then we can put the "E" that we took out into any of three places: before the two, between them, or after the two letters so we need 3 times that previous number.
 
HallsofIvy said:
If "at least one letter must be E", that means that the other two letters must be chosen from "GREN". That is, the first letter must be one of those 4 letters, the second one of the three remaining letters. How many is that?

But then we can put the "E" that we took out into any of three places: before the two, between them, or after the two letters so we need 3 times that previous number.

4P2 = 4*3

According to your method the answer should be 12 * 3 = 36 (The correct answer in the solutions is "27")

Clearly your method (as did mine) repeats some of the permutations :

You didn't take onto account that the two "E" are not distinct. Thus in those permutations where we chose two "E" were repeated. see :
GEE , EEG, EGE
ENE, EEN, NEE
REE, ERE , EER
 
hms.tech said:
4P2 = 4*3

According to your method the answer should be 12 * 3 = 36 (The correct answer in the solutions is "27")

Clearly your method (as did mine) repeats some of the permutations :

You didn't take onto account that the two "E" are not distinct. Thus in those permutations where we chose two "E" were repeated. see :
GEE , EEG, EGE
ENE, EEN, NEE
REE, ERE , EER

Alternatively, split the problem into two: Count those combinations with only 1 E and then count separately those with two E's.

For one E combination: (1C1)*(3C2)*3! = 18
For two E combination: (2C2)*(3C1)*(3!/2!) = 9. Then add.
 
I tried to combine those 2 formulas but it didn't work. I tried using another case where there are 2 red balls and 2 blue balls only so when combining the formula I got ##\frac{(4-1)!}{2!2!}=\frac{3}{2}## which does not make sense. Is there any formula to calculate cyclic permutation of identical objects or I have to do it by listing all the possibilities? Thanks
Since ##px^9+q## is the factor, then ##x^9=\frac{-q}{p}## will be one of the roots. Let ##f(x)=27x^{18}+bx^9+70##, then: $$27\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)^2+b\left(\frac{-q}{p}\right)+70=0$$ $$b=27 \frac{q}{p}+70 \frac{p}{q}$$ $$b=\frac{27q^2+70p^2}{pq}$$ From this expression, it looks like there is no greatest value of ##b## because increasing the value of ##p## and ##q## will also increase the value of ##b##. How to find the greatest value of ##b##? Thanks
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