A cylinder with cross-section area A floats with its long axis vertical

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a 5.0-cm-diameter cylinder floating in water and the work required to push it 11 cm deeper into the water. The problem is situated within the context of fluid mechanics and buoyancy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between force and work, questioning how to calculate the work done based on the displacement of water and the forces involved. There are inquiries about the variables in the equation provided and the correct interpretation of the cross-sectional area of the cylinder.

Discussion Status

Several participants have offered guidance on identifying variables and clarifying concepts related to buoyancy and work. There is an ongoing exploration of the calculations needed, with some participants expressing confusion about the units and the application of formulas. No consensus has been reached yet, as participants continue to clarify their understanding and address assumptions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem is a homework assignment and express the need for clarity on the definitions of terms and the correct application of formulas. There are discussions about the assumptions made regarding the body of water and the implications for the calculations.

  • #61
BlackPhysics said:
W = 2.327 * x?
Based on your numbers, it doesn't look right to me.

The average Force is nothing more than how you would average two numbers for this problem because the function is linear.

$$ F_{avg} = \frac{F(0)+F(x)}{2} $$
 
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  • #62
erobz said:
Based on your numbers, it doesn't look right to me.
0.52889375 is that right?
 
  • #63
BlackPhysics said:
0.52889375 is that right?
No, I don't get that either.
 
  • #64
BlackPhysics said:
W = 2.327 * x?
You calculated the final (i.e. maximum) force to be 2.116 N (but you keep leaving out the units!).
How did you get W = 2.327 * x from W=F*x? Looks like you multiplied F by 1.1 first.
And you want the force at the average displacement, not at the final displacement. Or to put that another way, you want to integrate the force from its initial 0 to its final value wrt displacement: ##W=\int F(x).dx##.
 
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  • #65
erobz said:
Based on your numbers, it doesn't look right to me.

The average Force is nothing more than how you would average two numbers for this problem because the function is linear.

$$ F_{1.05778} = \frac{F(0)+F(2.115575)}{2} $$
1.0577875 is what i got as the avg force
 
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  • #66
BlackPhysics said:
1.0577875 is what i got as the avg force
Units!
 
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  • #67
erobz said:
Units!
1.0577875 N
 
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  • #68
Now finish it out, and don't forget the units. Do you understand why this works for calculating the area under a line?
 
  • #69
erobz said:
Now finish it out, and don't forget the units. Do you understand why this works for calculating the area under a line?
Yes i do.

Avg F = 1.0577875 N
Work = 1.0577875 N * .11M
0.11635 J = 1.0577875 N * .11M

Is this right?
 
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  • #70
BlackPhysics said:
Yes i do.

Avg F = 1.0577875 N
Work = 1.0577875 N * .11M
0.11635 J = 1.0577875 N * .11M

Is this right?
Now it's time for the Physicist's to blast you about sig figs! Good Luck!
 
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  • #71
BlackPhysics said:
f = force
a = area
p = rho/density
g = gravity
x= displacement
Water acts like a compressing spring on your cylinder: the lower it is pushed, the higher is the resistive vertical force.
As area, density and gravity acceleration are all constant, we could make their product a constant k.
Then, we have a problem similar to the work done by, or on, a spring.

Please, see:
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-physics/chapter/7-4-conservative-forces-and-potential-energy/

Figure_08_04_01a.jpg
 
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  • #72
I'd just like to clear up the issue of "average force". @BlackPhysics is quite right that what we have calculated here, half the maximum force, is not the average force. Average force is defined as ##\frac{\Delta p}{\Delta t}=\frac{\int F(t).dt}{\int .dt}##. That has to be the definition to be consistent with average acceleration, so that ##F_{avg}=ma_{avg}##. Also, the formula still makes sense in vector form. So to calculate it we need to know the force as a function of time.
In the special case of a constant force, and with the displacement and force being parallel, this is equivalent to ##\frac{\Delta W}{\Delta x}=\frac{\int F(x).dx}{\int .dx}##, which we can correctly call the "average force with respect to displacement". Note that this makes sense in vectors only if we write it in the usual form, ##\Delta W=\int \vec F(x).\vec{dx}##, because one cannot divide by a vector.
Far too many educators who should know better set questions asking the student to find the "average force" based only on work and displacement. It is an interesting exercise to compute the average by both definitions in the case of a half cycle of SHM.

In the current thread, we don’t care what the average force is; rather, we want the average force wrt displacement. And since F(x) is linear, this equals ##\frac 12(F_{min}+F_{max})##. Hence ##\frac{\Delta W}{\Delta x}=\frac 12(F_{min}+F_{max})##, or ##\Delta W=\frac 12(F_{min}+F_{max})\Delta x##.
 
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