A Mathematical Investigation: -1 = 1?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical investigation into the equation -1 = 1, particularly examining the manipulation of square roots involving complex numbers. Participants explore the validity of certain algebraic steps and the implications of using complex numbers in mathematical proofs and applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that by manipulating square roots, they arrive at the conclusion that -1 = 1, questioning if they made an error in their reasoning.
  • Another participant asserts that the equality \(\sqrt{x}\sqrt{y} = \sqrt{xy}\) is not generally true, indicating a flaw in the original argument.
  • A different participant points out that the third line of the original argument is incorrect when considering complex numbers.
  • Several participants highlight that the argument relies on a rule with restrictions, specifically regarding the nonnegative requirement for the root-multiplication property.
  • Some participants inquire about the utility of complex numbers, with responses indicating their importance in fields like electrical engineering and their role in mathematical proofs.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of square roots, with one participant emphasizing that the square root function is defined to yield only one value for each argument.
  • Another participant discusses the isomorphism of complex numbers to vectors in R², suggesting this property contributes to their usefulness.
  • One participant raises a question about the use of degree measure versus radian measure in the polar form of complex numbers, leading to a discussion on the advantages of radians.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the validity of the original mathematical manipulation and the properties of square roots in the context of complex numbers. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial claim that -1 = 1, and multiple competing views regarding the use of complex numbers and mathematical principles remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the original argument related to the assumptions about square roots and the conditions under which certain algebraic properties hold. The discussion also highlights the need for careful consideration of definitions in mathematical proofs.

johncena
Messages
131
Reaction score
1
1 = -1 !

[tex]\sqrt{}a[/tex].[tex]\sqrt{}b[/tex] = [tex]\sqrt{}ab[/tex]
When a = b = -1,
[tex]\sqrt{}-1[/tex].[tex]\sqrt{}-1[/tex]=[tex]\sqrt{}-1*-1[/tex]
i*i = [tex]\sqrt{}1[/tex] = 1
i2 = 1
-1 = 1

Had i gone wrong anywhere??
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org


This is not true in general:
[tex]\sqrt{x}\sqrt{y}=\sqrt{xy}[/tex]
!
 


Your third line is wrong, for complex numbers.
 


Algebra fail!

You may also enjoy these. The basic idea of all of them is the same. They all rely on a rule that has a subtle restriction (such as the nonnegative requirement on the root-multiplication distributive property), and then ignore the restriction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invalid_proof
 


Tac-Tics said:
Algebra fail!

You may also enjoy these. The basic idea of all of them is the same. They all rely on a rule that has a subtle restriction (such as the nonnegative requirement on the root-multiplication distributive property), and then ignore the restriction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invalid_proof

I was searching for a site like this ...thanx:smile:
 


Actually,what is the use of complex numbers ?
 


johncena said:
Actually,what is the use of complex numbers ?

They're very useful in many capacities. Electrical engineering uses them extensively (though they call the complex unit j for some reason). Many/most proofs of, e.g., the fundamental theorem of algebra use complex numbers.
 


johncena said:
Actually,what is the use of complex numbers ?

They are very useful; you may, for example use them as Christmas tree decorations. :smile:
 


Isn't the main error the 4th line? sqrt(1) = +/- 1, and in this case, it would be -1.
 
Last edited:
  • #10


Newtime said:
Isn't the main error the 4th line? sqrt(-1) = +/- 1, and in this case, it would be -1.
Nope.

The square root is defined as a FUNCTION, and can therefore have only one value for each argument.
 
  • #11


johncena said:
Actually,what is the use of complex numbers ?

Complex numbers are a natural extension of the real numbers. Just as real numbers were created ("invented" in a sense) to solve the issue of the square root of a length (a non-negative number), the complex numbers were invented to solve the issue of the square root for any real number.

The complex numbers have the amazing property, embodied by the fundamental theorem of arithmetic that all polynomials of complex numbers (of degree 1 or more) ALWAYS have zeros.

Complex numbers are a little different from real numbers in important ways, too. The complex numbers cannot be field ordered.

Complex numbers are isomorphic to vectors in R^2.
 
  • #12


CRGreathouse said:
They're very useful in many capacities. Electrical engineering uses them extensively (though they call the complex unit j for some reason).

So as to distinguish it from current.
 
  • #13


Tac-Tics said:
Complex numbers are isomorphic to vectors in R^2.

That's why they work so well as Christmas tree decorations. :smile:
 
  • #14


[tex]c=\sqrt{a} * \sqrt {b}=\sqrt{a*b}[/tex]

If a=b then:

[tex]c=\sqrt{a} * \sqrt {a}=\sqrt{a^2}[/tex]

so that

[tex]c=|a|[/tex]



Regards.
 
  • #15


Only if "a" is a non-negative number. :smile:
 
  • #16


Why is degree measure not used in the polar form of complex numbers?
What is the advantage in using radian measure?
 
  • #17


In general, radian measure is more "natural" in a variety of settings. The number of degrees in a circle (360), is more or less arbitrary, I think. One of the reasons 360 was chosen is because many numbers divide it (it's not nice to work with 100/3 degrees, for instance).

Before one encounters a rigorous development of trigonometry in calculus or analysis, trig functions are often extended to obtuse angles (or rather, any real number) via points on the unit circle. Here, radian measure is very natural, since any angle that cuts off an arc has the same measure as the arc itself.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
6K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K