A question about electrostatic

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    Electrostatic
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electrostatics, specifically focusing on charge induction and the behavior of charges in a pail when influenced by a positively charged object. Participants explore the mechanisms of charge redistribution, grounding, and the resulting net charge of the pail after the charged object is removed.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the final charge of the pail after the positively charged nylon rod is removed, suggesting that electrons will redistribute evenly across the pail's surface.
  • Others propose that grounding the pail allows electrons to flow in, potentially neutralizing protons on the surface, and question how electrons rearrange within the pail when the charged object is nearby.
  • One participant states that when the positive charge is removed, negative charges will distribute themselves to maximize distance from one another, resulting in a net negative charge for the isolated pail.
  • Another participant clarifies that protons do not move; rather, it is the conduction electrons that are responsible for the charge movement in the wire connected to the pail.
  • There is a discussion about the negligible effects of the charge sensor connected to the pail, emphasizing the importance of understanding induction charging.
  • One participant explains charge induction by describing how electrons in a neutral object move closer to a positively charged object, leading to a redistribution of charges when contact is made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the final charge of the pail and the mechanics of charge induction. While some points are clarified, multiple competing views and uncertainties remain about the processes involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants exhibit uncertainty regarding the exact mechanisms of charge redistribution and the role of grounding. There are also references to concepts from chemistry, such as dipole bonding, which may not be fully resolved in the context of electrostatics.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals interested in electrostatics, particularly those seeking to understand charge induction and the behavior of charges in conductive materials.

edgarpokemon
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Homework Statement




Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


i don't understand what happens at the end, when the pail becomes negative charged!. my assumption is that since the positive charged nylon rod is making the electrons to closed together in one side of the pail by attraction, when the man takes off the nylon rod, the electrons in the pail will be distributed evenly on the surface of the can, but i am not sure! help i been thinking about these for 3 days!
 
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edgarpokemon said:

Homework Statement




Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


i don't understand what happens at the end, when the pail becomes negative charged!. my assumption is that since the positive charged nylon rod is making the electrons to closed together in one side of the pail by attraction, when the man takes off the nylon rod, the electrons in the pail will be distributed evenly on the surface of the can, but i am not sure! help i been thinking about these for 3 days!


When he grounds it, he's giving the pail a path to electrons in the ground. Now what is happening in the pail when he holds the positive charged disc near it how are the electrons rearranging themselves within it?

Have you read about charge by induction before?
 
Student100 said:
When he grounds it, he's giving the pail a path to electrons in the ground. Now what is happening in the pail when he holds the positive charged disc near it how are the electrons rearranging themselves within it?
the electrons in the pail are to the side where the positive charged is, and the protons stay in the outer surface of the pail. So electrons will travel into the pail by grounding? to neutralize the outer protons. and when he releases the ground from the pail, the electrons that were on the side of the positively charged rod will travel through the wire to the sensor, resulting in a 0 charge reading. but i don't understand what happens at the end!? is the cage responsible?
 
edgarpokemon said:
the electrons in the pail are to the side where the positive charged is, and the protons stay in the outer surface of the pail. So electrons will travel into the pail by grounding? to neutralize the outer protons. and when he releases the ground from the pail, the electrons that were on the side of the positively charged rod will travel through the wire to the sensor, resulting in a 0 charge reading. but i don't understand what happens at the end!? is the cage responsible?

No.

When he removes the positive charge, the negative charges distributed themselves over the surface of the pail, as to get as far from one another as possible. Since the pail is isolated, it now has a net negative charge.
 
Student100 said:
No.

When he removes the positive charge, the negative charges distributed themselves over the surface of the pail, as to get as far from one another as possible. Since the pail is isolated, it now has a net negative charge.
aaaaa of course! now i understand! thanks youu :,) =D
 
so the electrons and the protons of the wire that is connected to the pail will have no influece in the results?
 
edgarpokemon said:
so the electrons and the protons of the wire that is connected to the pail will have no influece in the results?

Protons aren't moving, it's the conduction electrons, the free electrons of the conductor, that are moving.

I'm assuming the red lead on the can is for the charge sensor, which probably has some kind of capacitor in it to actually make the measurement. You can probably regard it's effects as negligible here. The important part is realizing how induction charging works.
 
Student100 said:
Protons aren't moving, it's the conduction electrons, the free electrons of the conductor, that are moving.

I'm assuming the red lead on the can is for the charge sensor, which probably has some kind of capacitor in it to actually make the measurement. You can probably regard it's effects as negligible here. The important part is realizing how induction charging works.
aaaa thanks! i usually always want to learn every little detail, but for now i will leave it alone jaja
 
edgarpokemon said:
aaaa thanks! i usually always want to learn every little detail, but for now i will leave it alone jaja

You don't have to leave early it alone, wanting to understands things is useful.

Can you explain to me how charge by induction works now?
 
  • #10
Student100 said:
You don't have to leave early it alone, wanting to understands things is useful.

Can you explain to me how charge by induction works now?
yes! so let's say i have a neutral object, and i make it to be close to an positive charged object, the electrons will come closer to the positive charged object by induction, similar to hydrogen bonding or dipole bond (from chemistry). So the electrons and protons of the original neutral object will be in different regions, electrons close to the positive charged object, protons near the surface. When I touch it, i will release electrons to cancel the protons from the pail (making the pail to be from positive to neutral.) now i release the positive charged object from the pail, and the rest of the electrons will distribute evenly to the surface area of the pail, making it negative. if the object was not be touched, then when releasing the positive charged object from the pail, it would return to its original neutral state. i didnt thought of how dipole bonds are similar to induction, would make things a lot of easier for me! oh well! thanks :p
 

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