A question involving connectedness and constant functions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving properties of continuous functions defined on connected sets, specifically focusing on integer-valued functions and their constancy, as well as exploring the case of irrational values. The original poster expresses difficulty in maintaining intuition for the mathematical concepts involved due to time constraints.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove that a continuous function from a connected set to integers is constant, using contradiction and the concept of separation. They also question how to approach the case where the function takes irrational values.
  • Some participants suggest alternative methods for proving the properties of the function and provide hints for the second part of the problem, raising questions about the implications of connectedness on the image of the function.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of open sets and how they relate to the proof structure, particularly in the context of rational numbers.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing hints and clarifications regarding the proofs. The original poster has expressed gratitude for the guidance received, indicating progress in their understanding. However, there remains some ambiguity regarding the approach to the second part of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the constraints of homework rules and the definitions of connectedness and continuity, which are central to the problem at hand. The original poster's struggle with intuition due to time constraints is noted, impacting their engagement with the material.

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Sorry, this is my 3rd time for asking for help in a week and a half. I just have completely lost any intuition I had for math with all the time constraits I have.

Homework Statement


a.)Prove that a continuous function, f:M->R, all of whose values are integers, is constant provided that M is connected.
b.)What if all the values are irrational?

Homework Equations



M is connected if it has no separation. A separation is defined as 2 nonempty open sets A and B such that A U B=M and A \capB= the empty set.

Ny interpretation for f is constant is that it has only one element in it's image. f(x)=c for all x.

The Attempt at a Solution


I proved a.) using contradiction. I assumed M was connected and f was not constant. I let A=the set of all x in M such that f(x)=c and B=the set of all x in M such that f(x) didn't equal c. I proved that both A and be were open and came to the conclusion that there was a separation. I can't use the same logic for part b.) as proving A was open required that the distance between each integer be a discrete value.

I'm assuming the answer for b.) is no but I don't know how to prove it.
 
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a seems fine, even though it's not the standard way of proving it.

I'll give you a hint for b. Assume that a and b are in the image of f. Take a rational number q between a and b. You'll need to show that f^{-1}(]-\infty,q[) and f^{-1}([q,+\infty[) is a separation.

The standard way to prove both a and b, is to actually show that if X is connected, then f(X) is connected. Thus connectedness is preserved under continuous images. This makes it easier to show a and b...
 
micromass said:
a seems fine, even though it's not the standard way of proving it.

I'll give you a hint for b. Assume that a and b are in the image of f. Take a rational number q between a and b. You'll need to show that f^{-1}(]-\infty,q[) and f^{-1}([q,+\infty[) is a separation.

The standard way to prove both a and b, is to actually show that if X is connected, then f(X) is connected. Thus connectedness is preserved under continuous images. This makes it easier to show a and b...

So I proved that f(X) is connected if X is connected. The first bit of advice confused me a little when I went to do it. Do you mean f^{-1} of the interval from q to infinity as only a and b are in the image.
 
Yes, I know that f^{-1}(]-\infty,q])=f^{-1}(a). But the advantage is that ]-\infty,q[ is an open set. Thus this shows that f^{-1}(a) is an open set. Similarly, f^{-1}(b) is an open sets. So you've found two disjoint open sets.
 
Oh ok, that's what I thought and I just finished it. Thank you so much.
 

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