About the existence and uniqueness of electrical network solutions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof in the book Applied Graph Theory by Wai-Kai Chen concerning the existence and uniqueness of solutions in electrical networks. Participants are examining the relationship between the basis circuit matrix B and the basis cut matrix Q, particularly in the context of different network configurations involving current and voltage sources.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the proof, arguing that matrices B and Q refer to different networks: B pertains to a network with current sources removed, while Q pertains to a network with voltage sources shorted.
  • Another participant asserts that B and Q relate to the same network G, suggesting that the notation in the proof indicates this relationship.
  • A further reply emphasizes that the definitions of Z and Y matrices imply that BZB' is applicable only to networks without independent current sources, and QYQ' is applicable only to networks without independent voltage sources, implying G represents two different networks.
  • Another participant challenges this interpretation, suggesting that the distinction may only lie in the choice between impedance and admittance matrices, and questions the ability to comment on the text without seeing it.
  • One participant notes that the equations involving the branch-impedance matrix Z and the branch-admittance matrix Y indicate that the subscripts in the partitioning reflect the type of source present, suggesting a specific relationship between the matrices and the sources.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether matrices B and Q refer to the same or different networks, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations present.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference definitions and concepts from the book that are not fully provided in the thread, which may limit the clarity of their arguments. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific assumptions regarding the types of sources present in the networks.

cianfa72
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TL;DR
About the existence and uniqueness of network solutions as explained in the book Applied Graph Theory W.K. Chen
Hi,
I've a question about a proof found in the book Applied Graph Theory from Wai-Kai Chen. My point is that basis circuit matrix B and basis cut matrix Q employed in the proof actually refer to two different networks.

B should be the basic circuit matrix of the initial network with current sources removed (opened) while Q should be the basis cut matrix of the initial network with voltage sources shorted.

Since B and Q refer actually to different networks to me it does not make sense the following part of the proof to show that the solution is unique.

Capture.JPG


Can you help me ? Thanks.
 
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cianfa72 said:
Since B and Q refer actually to different networks

B^* and Q^* relate to the same network, G^*, as stated in the first line of the proof. The definitions of B and Q are not given in this extract - presumably they are defined earlier in the text - but the notation strongly suggests that B and Q both relate to the single network G.
 
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pasmith said:
but the notation strongly suggests that B and Q both relate to the single network G.
The point I was trying to make is that from earlier in the book Z hence BZB' should be defined only for networks with no indipendent current sources while Y hence QYQ' only for networks with no indipendent voltage sources. So it seems network G is actually two different networks.
 
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cianfa72 said:
The point I was trying to make is that from earlier in the book Z hence BZB' should be defined only for networks with no indipendent current sources while Y hence QYQ' only for networks with no indipendent voltage sources. So it seems network G is actually two different networks.
Are you sure? That doesn't sound right to me. The difference should only be whether you choose to use impedance or admittance matrices. Anyway, how can we comment about text we can't see?
 
DaveE said:
The difference should only be whether you choose to use impedance or admittance matrices.
In the book branch-impedance matrix Z enters in the equation V=E + ZI while branch-admittance Y in the equation I=J + YV.

Capture.JPG


The text insists that for loop system of equations there are no independent current sources while for cut system of equations there are no independent voltage sources:

Capture-1.JPG


So I believe the subscript s in the partitioning of Z and Y matrices actually reflects, respectively, one type of source only (voltage sources for Z and current sources for Y).
 
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