Absolute Zero, about -273.15ºC, is the coldest known temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of absolute zero and the possibility of an "absolute heat" or maximum temperature. Participants explore theoretical implications, definitions, and the behavior of matter and energy at extreme temperatures, touching on thermodynamics, kinetic theory, and nuclear processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose the idea of an "absolute ∞" or "absolute energy," questioning if such concepts could physically exist and what implications they might have.
  • Others argue that "infinite" is a problematic concept and that "absolute energy" lacks a clear definition, suggesting a need for quantifiable measures.
  • A participant mentions a "maximum" temperature where standard physics may break down, though they express uncertainty about this concept.
  • Concerns are raised about the molecular structure breaking down at extremely high temperatures, leading to chaos and disintegration of matter.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between temperature and entropy, suggesting that while temperature can increase, there may be practical limits to heating a system.
  • One participant references the behavior of particles at high temperatures, indicating that kinetic energy could theoretically be unbounded, but nuclear fusion introduces complexities that might limit temperature in systems of particles.
  • The concept of Quark-Gluon Plasma is mentioned as a state of matter that could occur under extreme conditions, with implications for understanding high-energy physics.
  • There is speculation about whether matter could transform into pure energy at extremely high temperatures, paralleling the idea of absolute zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the existence of an absolute heat, with no consensus reached. Some believe it is theoretically possible, while others are skeptical but acknowledge the uncertainty surrounding the topic.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of temperature and energy, as well as unresolved mathematical considerations regarding particle behavior at extreme velocities and energies.

Lazernugget
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Absolute Zero, about -273.15ºC, is the coldest known temperature possible, where matter it's self, stops moving, and energy can't build up. But, could there be...say, an absolute ∞? Or like...and Absolute energy? Could these be physically possible, and where would these things be found. What side effects would these things have?

Thanks, bye!
 
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Infinite means that it never ends. How can you have a neverending amount of something? And absolute energy doesn't mean anything. That doesn't define the energy your talking about. We need a number or something else to define that.
 


1)What I mean is like, as much energy as possible

2)The "∞" Just means so much heat, like the inverse of Absolute 0...
 


Lazernugget said:
1)What I mean is like, as much energy as possible

2)The "∞" Just means so much heat, like the inverse of Absolute 0...

I think I understand what you are asking. I think I've heard of a "maximum" temperature that after that standard physics breaks down, but I don't know for sure.
 


Just to say: "Absolute Zero" temperature does not cause an atom to degenerate into some type of quantum foam.
 


As far as i know, the models we use for thermodynamics do not have a maximum temperature value. One way to look at it is this: as temperature increases, the entropy increases too. But the rate of entropy increasing goes to zero for infinite temperature increase. This means that at some point, you'll need to put in your system more energy than there is energy in the universe just to make the temperature go higher... But as far as i know, there are no limits to how much you can heat a system.
 


Hmmm...interesting thoughts on this. One thing first: When something gains more heat, the standard explanation is the atoms/molecules "buzz" more and zip around, so (If that simple way of explaining temp. is true) Then couldn't there be a point at heat where the energy is so great the molecular structure just can't take it anymore, and it falls apart, breaking into chaos and just falling apart? Something like that...?
 


Lazernugget said:
Hmmm...interesting thoughts on this. One thing first: When something gains more heat, the standard explanation is the atoms/molecules "buzz" more and zip around, so (If that simple way of explaining temp. is true) Then couldn't there be a point at heat where the energy is so great the molecular structure just can't take it anymore, and it falls apart, breaking into chaos and just falling apart? Something like that...?

Most definitely. Inside the sun the pressure in the core causes the atoms and molecules to heat up enormously. This heat causes the electrons to be stripped from their orbits, resulting in a sea of ionized particles (electrons and protons) called a Plasma. These protons are moving so fast due to the heat that they collide into each other, and in a process called Nucleosynthesis fuse together by Nuclear Fusion, releasing energy that makes the sun shine on all of us here on earth. =)
 


Lazernugget said:
Hmmm...interesting thoughts on this. One thing first: When something gains more heat, the standard explanation is the atoms/molecules "buzz" more and zip around, so (If that simple way of explaining temp. is true) Then couldn't there be a point at heat where the energy is so great the molecular structure just can't take it anymore, and it falls apart, breaking into chaos and just falling apart? Something like that...?

Sure, but it just keeps breaking down. You may want to study Big Bang theory and nucleosynthesis to get a reversed version of what you're talking about. Concentrate enough energy in a small enough area, and you end with a QGP (Quark-Gluon Plasma), and who knows beyond that.

Intuitively, it seems that it would be an asymptotic process without a clear end. You're essentially saying that because silence exists, there must be a maximum volume as well... maybe, but it doesn't logically follow.

editing
Drakkith beat me to it, damn.
 
  • #10


Ah yes...I know about plasma...so is the verdict that there possibly COULD be an absolute heat?...
 
  • #11


Lazernugget said:
Ah yes...I know about plasma...so is the verdict that there possibly COULD be an absolute heat?...

I don't believe so. But no one can say 100% for sure that there is not.
 
  • #12


By kinetic theory a gas's temperature would be limited purely by the individual particle velocities, which would naturally be limited by the speed of light. So it would seem the temperature of a gas would be the maximum kinetic energy of an individual particle. Considering one lone particle, a hydrogen atom kinetic theory would suggest that the hydrogen particles temperature would approach 3.92 E 14 Kelvin or around 392 TK. This doesn't quit work though because as V approaches the speed of light there would be a relitavistic increase in mass causing the kinetic energy to go to infinity as V approaches C. So it would appear in the case of a lone particle that the temperature could be unbounded.

However in a system of particles, as pointed out before , at some point Nuclear fusion would occur. Energies at which nuclear fusion occur are typically on the order of Mev or around 1 Billion Kelvin (10^9 K) so the process would be complicated by exchanges of energy in particles. Fusion reaction rates increase with temperature and at some point reache a maximum and begins to drop off. So maybe this behavior would be assymptotic.

Considering fusion chain reactions in stars we could maybe put a picture together of what this theoretical "absolute hot" assymptotic behavior might look like. Collisons of four protons create one alpha particle, two positrons and two neutrinos and energy. Maybe this break down into smaller less physical particles at some point limits and lowers the kinetic energy of the system ultimately lowering the temperature. At an absolute hot temperature, rather than some ultimate situation analogous to absolute zero in which particles theoretically stop moving, perhaps matter is transformed into pure energy.

So my answer would be theoretically it seems there must be some assymptotic limit. On the other hand, Kinetically speaking, energy goes to infinity as V approaches C. So who knows, fun question.
 
Last edited:
  • #13


:D Thanks, I thought this was an interesting question too...that's why I posted! :D
 

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