Addition and Multiplication of Natural Numbers - Bloch Th. 1.2.7 .... ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of Theorem 1.2.7 from Ethan D. Bloch's book, specifically focusing on the reasoning behind the assertion that the set \( G \) is a subset of the natural numbers \( \mathbb{N} \). Participants are examining the implications of the definition of \( G \) and the conditions under which it may be empty.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions the reasoning behind Bloch's assertion that \( G \subseteq \mathbb{N} \) before proving \( 1 \in G \).
  • Opalg clarifies that the definition of \( G \) implies \( G \) is a subset of \( \mathbb{N} \) since all elements of \( G \) are defined to be elements of \( \mathbb{N} \).
  • Peter raises a concern about the possibility of \( G \) being empty and whether that affects the subset relationship.
  • Opalg responds that the empty set is a subset of every set, thus \( G \subseteq \mathbb{N} \) holds even if \( G \) is empty.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the technical point that the empty set is a subset of every set. However, there is an ongoing discussion regarding the implications of the definition of \( G \) and the conditions under which it may be empty.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes considerations about the implications of set definitions and the nature of subsets, particularly in the context of potential emptiness of \( G \). There are no resolved mathematical steps or definitions that clarify the conditions under which \( G \) might be empty.

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I am reading Ethan D. Bloch's book: The Real Numbers and Real Analysis ...

I am currently focused on Chapter 1: Construction of the Real Numbers ...

I need help/clarification with an aspect of Theorem 1.2.7 (1) ...

Theorem 1.2.7 reads as follows:
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/6976
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/6977
In the above proof of (1) we read the following:" We will show that $$G = \mathbb{N}$$, which will imply the desired result. Clearly $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$. ... ... ... "Before he proves that $$1 \in G$$, Bloch asserts that $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$ ... what is his reasoning ...?

It does not appear to me ... from the order in which he says things that he is saying

$$1 \in G$$ ... therefore $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$ ...

Can we immediately conclude that $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$ without relying on $$1 \in G $$... ... ?Hope someone can help ... ...

Peter
 
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Peter said:
In the above proof of (1) we read the following:" We will show that $$G = \mathbb{N}$$, which will imply the desired result. Clearly $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$. ... ... ... "Before he proves that $$1 \in G$$, Bloch asserts that $$G \subseteq \mathbb{N}$$ ... what is his reasoning ...?
The definition of $G$ is of the form $G = \{z\in \Bbb{N} \mid \ldots \}$. This says that each element $z$ of $G$ is an element of $\Bbb{N}$, in other words $G\subseteq\Bbb{N}$.
 
Opalg said:
The definition of $G$ is of the form $G = \{z\in \Bbb{N} \mid \ldots \}$. This says that each element $z$ of $G$ is an element of $\Bbb{N}$, in other words $G\subseteq\Bbb{N}$.
Thanks Opalg ... appreciate the help ...

But ... what if no z satisfy the criteria for membership of G ... and G = $$\emptyset$$ ... ?Peter
 
Peter said:
Thanks Opalg ... appreciate the help ...

But ... what if no z satisfy the criteria for membership of G ... and G = $$\emptyset$$ ... ?Peter
That's not a problem. The empty set is a subset of every set. So even if $G = \emptyset$, it's still true that $G\subseteq \Bbb{N}$.
 
Opalg said:
That's not a problem. The empty set is a subset of every set. So even if $G = \emptyset$, it's still true that $G\subseteq \Bbb{N}$.
Thanks again Opalg ...

That certainly resolves that issue ...

Peter
 

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