Addition for generators of rotation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation of the Lorentz algebra, specifically focusing on the addition of generators of rotation and the implications of different dimensions for these generators. Participants explore the mathematical framework of direct sums and products in the context of quantum mechanics and group theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the dimension of the representation (1, ½) leads to different dimensions for the plus and minus generators, raising a question about how to add these matrices together.
  • Another participant argues that direct products and direct sums do not require matrices to be of the same dimension, suggesting that operators acting in different spaces can be combined using tensor products.
  • A later reply agrees with the idea of using a direct sum, proposing that it results in a vector with a 5x5 matrix for each component.
  • Another participant counters that the representation should be interpreted as a direct product, emphasizing that J+ and J- act independently on different dimensional representations.
  • A participant questions the interpretation of the operator K, seeking clarification on whether it represents a direct product with one generator being negative or a direct sum with a negative component.
  • One participant explains that the Lorentz group has six generators and that the representations can be expressed as direct products of SU(2) representations, with operators acting separately on their respective spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether to use direct sums or direct products for the generators, indicating that there is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the mathematical structure involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of combining operators from different dimensional representations and the potential for misunderstanding in the application of direct sums versus direct products. Specific mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved.

jfy4
Messages
645
Reaction score
3
Hi,

I have here the following rules for representations of the Lorentz algebra including spinors
  • The representations of the Lorentz algebra can be labeled by two half-integers [itex](j_{-},j_{+})[/itex].
  • The dimension of the representation [itex](j_{-},j_{+})[/itex] is [itex](2j_{-}+1)(2j_{+}+1)[/itex].
  • The generator of rotations [itex]\mathbf{J}[/itex] is related to [itex]\mathbf{J}^{+}[/itex] and [itex]\mathbf{J}^{-}[/itex] by [itex]\mathbf{J}=\mathbf{J}^{+}+\mathbf{J}^{-}[/itex]; therefore, by the usual addition of angular momenta in quantum mechanics, in the representation [itex](j_{-},j_{+})[/itex] we have states with all possible spin [itex]j[/itex] in integer steps between the values [itex]|j_{+}-j_{-}|[/itex] and [itex]j_{+}+j_{-}[/itex].

My question is that given a representation [itex](1,\frac{1}{2})[/itex], the dimension for the plus and minus generators are different (3 and 2), yet I am suppose to add these matrices together for the generators [itex]\mathbf{J}[/itex]. Would it be a direct product [itex]A\oplus B[/itex]? I don't see how you can add matrices together with different dimension.

Thanks,
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm not very familiar with group theory, but direct products and direct sums do not require the matrices to be of the same dimension. Else it would not be possible to describe composite systems of two parts whose Hilbert spaces are of different dimensions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_product#Kronecker_product_of_two_matrices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_sum_of_matrices#Direct_sum

If you add two operators which act in different spaces, usually the following is meant:
[itex]A + B = A \otimes 1 + 1 \otimes B[/itex]
 
Last edited:
Thanks kith,

That's my tentative answer too right now. I think it is the direct sum (I wrote direct product, oops, :blushing: ). That would get me a vector that has one 5x5 matrix for each component of the vector.
 
No, actually you want the direct product. Saying that a representation of the Lorentz group is (1, ½) means that J+ acts on a 3-dimensional representation and J- acts independently on a 2-dimensional representation. The Lorentz group representation has (2j-+1)(2j++1) components, which in this case is six. You need to construct a six-dimensional matrix as a direct product, and then presumably reduce it.
 
Really!? How should I interpret
[tex] \mathbf{K}=-i(\mathbf{J}^{+}-\mathbf{J}^{-})[/tex]
Is this the direct product of the generators such that one of them is negative? Before I thought I understood these, I had thought before this was the direct sum with [itex]\mathbf{J}^{-}[/itex] negative. Help!
 
The Lorentz group has six generators: three rotations J and three boosts K. You form linear combinations J+ and J-, and discover that J+ commutes with J- and each of J+, J- generates a 3-D rotation group, SU(2).

States in a representation of SU(2) are labeled as |j, m>. A representation of the Lorentz group will be a direct product of two such SU(2) representations and have states labeled as |j+, m+>|j-, m->.

As kith pointed out above, for an operator like K which is a linear combination of J+ and J-, each term acts separately on its own space, and the action can be written (J+ ⊗ 1) ⊕ (1 ⊗ J-).
 
Thanks guys.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
6K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K