Air Molecules at Mach 1: Understanding Collisions and Net Velocity

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of air molecules at Mach 1, particularly focusing on collisions, net velocity, and the implications of air movement at such speeds. It touches on theoretical aspects of molecular motion, sound speed, and the effects of Earth's rotation on air velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether accelerating molecules to Mach 1 results in fewer arbitrary collisions or a net directional movement of molecules.
  • One participant challenges the phrasing regarding "direction of Mach 1 speed," asserting that speed and velocity are distinct concepts.
  • There is a claim that at the equator, air moves at Mach 1.4 due to Earth's rotation, prompting further clarification about the reference frame of this speed.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the implication that air molecules at the equator are moving at 1000 mph, suggesting it refers to their speed relative to the Earth's center.
  • One participant notes that the air experiences more collisions as compression waves pass through, indicating a relationship between speed and collision frequency.
  • A participant suggests that the original question may not accurately capture the complexities of what occurs at the speed of sound, proposing alternative scenarios such as supersonic shock waves or explosions for consideration.
  • It is mentioned that while the average speed of air molecules exceeds the speed of sound, the net velocity can be zero in calm conditions due to random motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of air movement at Mach 1, the interpretation of speed versus velocity, and the relevance of the original question. There is no consensus on these points, and multiple competing perspectives remain.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific assumptions about reference frames and conditions, such as the definition of speed versus velocity and the context of air movement at Mach 1. The discussion does not resolve these assumptions.

scumhearted
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
If molecules generally move at sound speed, given they are accelerated at Mach 1, does this mean there are less arbitrary collisions? or less collisions in general and more molecules move in the direction of mach 1 speed??
 
Physics news on Phys.org
scumhearted said:
in the direction of mach 1 speed??

Let me just tell you that this phrase means nothing. Speed isn't velocity.
 
At the equator the air moves at mach 1.4 due to the rotation of the earth. What is your question again?
 
0xDEADBEEF said:
At the equator the air moves at mach 1.4 due to the rotation of the earth.

Well, wrt the centre of the Earth. :wink:
 
0xDEADBEEF said:
At the equator the air moves at mach 1.4 due to the rotation of the earth. What is your question again?

This sounds like you are saying that at the equator, there are 1000 mph winds. Really?
 
phinds said:
This sounds like you are saying that at the equator, there are 1000 mph winds. Really?

I think they're saying the air molecules move at 1000 mph wrt the centre of the Earth, not the surface.
 
Whovian said:
I think they're saying the air molecules move at 1000 mph wrt the centre of the Earth, not the surface.

Ah ... got it. Seems meaningless. EVERYTHING moves at that speed on that basis.
 
scumhearted said:
If molecules generally move at sound speed, given they are accelerated at Mach 1, does this mean there are less arbitrary collisions? or less collisions in general and more molecules move in the direction of mach 1 speed??

The air will have more collisions as the compression wave passes through, since the air is compressed.
 
The point is that you ask what happens when air moves at that speed, which is probably not what you want to know. Maybe you want to know what happens in a supersonic shock wave, or in an explosion, or when you have supersonic flow around objects or ...

What happens at the speed of sound isn't really a good question.

Oh and to pick up on Whovian: with respect to the sun its mach 88 :)
 
  • #10
The average speed of air molecules is well above the speed of sound, about 1750 kph versus 1235 kph., but the net velocity is zero (in a no wind condtion) since the molecules are mostly bouncing around with no net movement. In the outer edges of the atmosphere, a very small percentage of hydrogen atoms achieve escape velocity.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 236 ·
8
Replies
236
Views
17K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
4K
  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K