Analyzing diode circuit with Constant Voltage Drop model

In summary, the student is trying to solve for the currents in a circuit, but is having trouble because of the format of the circuit.
  • #1
izelkay
115
3

Homework Statement


BMnUBqS.png


Homework Equations


Whenever assuming a diode is "on", replace that diode with a 0.7 voltage source.
Whenever assuming a diode is "off", replace that diode with an open circuit.

The Attempt at a Solution


The problem is pretty straightforward but the format of the circuit is confusing to me so I'm not sure if I'm doing it correctly. Could someone please check my answers? Just concerned with part (a) for now:

(a)
3UGNRpN.jpg
 
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  • #2
You might want to recheck your value for V. Note that the top of the first diode is at +0.7V, while the V terminal is just after the second diode which provides a 0.7V potential drop...
 
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  • #3
gneill said:
You might want to recheck your value for V. Note that the top of the first diode is at +0.7V, while the V terminal is just after the second diode which provides a 0.7V potential drop...
Thanks, that's exactly what I wasn't sure about. So if the voltage at the node connecting the diodes is 0.7V, I would need to "step down" 0.7V to get to the V terminal right? So the voltage at V is 0 V?

Also, aside from the wrong V value, is the method I used to solve for the currents correct?
 
  • #4
At the two cases v is equal to zero
 
  • #5
Eltahawy said:
At the two cases v is equal to zero
v1 = 0
v2 is not 0.
 
  • #6
rude man said:
v1 = 0
v2 is not 0.
Yeah it looks like v2 in (b) can't be 0 with both the diodes on because then the current I would be negative, which isn't consistent with the Constant Voltage Drop Model.

I'm having trouble figuring out what diode configuration to use though.

With diode 1 (left) off and diode 2 (right) on, the voltage drop across diode 1 is still 0.7 V because of the shared node with diode 2, but the current would be 0 A which isn't consistent with the model.

With diode 1 on and diode 2 off, the V terminal is at -5 V since there's no voltage drop across the 5k resistor due to there being no current, which means the voltage drop across diode 2 is 5.7 V since it's 0.7 V at the shared node with diode 1. Again, this isn't consistent with the model since no current flows through diode 2.

With both diodes off, the voltage drop across diode 1 is 5 V and the drop across diode 2 is 10 V. This isn't consistent since no current is flowing.

Where am I going wrong in my thought process? One of the configurations has to work.
 
  • #7
izelkay said:
Yeah it looks like v2 in (b) can't be 0 with both the diodes on because then the current I would be negative, which isn't consistent with the Constant Voltage Drop Model.

I'm having trouble figuring out what diode configuration to use though.

With diode 1 (left) off and diode 2 (right) on, the voltage drop across diode 1 is still 0.7 V because of the shared node with diode 2, but the current would be 0 A which isn't consistent with the model.
You mean because two diodes have the same anode voltage ("shared node"), their cathode voltages have to be the same too?
I don't think so ...
 
  • #8
rude man said:
You mean because two diodes have the same anode voltage ("shared node"), their cathode voltages have to be the same too?
I don't think so ...
"With diode 1 (left) off and diode 2 (right) on, the voltage drop across diode 1 is still 0.7 V because of the shared node with diode 2, but the current would be 0 A which isn't consistent with the model."

I mean with this configuration the anode voltage of diode 1 is 0.7 V but the cathode voltage is 0 V because of the ground, so the voltage drop is just 0.7 V?
 
  • #9
izelkay said:
"With diode 1 (left) off and diode 2 (right) on, the voltage drop across diode 1 is still 0.7 V because of the shared node with diode 2, but the current would be 0 A which isn't consistent with the model."

I mean with this configuration the anode voltage of diode 1 is 0.7 V but the cathode voltage is 0 V because of the ground, so the voltage drop is just 0.7 V?
The anode voltage of diode 1 is not 0.7V. Diode 1 is off so how can its anode be 0.7V more positive than its cathode?
 
  • #10
rude man said:
The anode voltage of diode 1 is not 0.7V. Diode 1 is off so how can its anode be 0.7V more positive than its cathode?
I was under the impression that it'd be something like this:
gpIS4.png

Even though the diode's off I thought the anode's voltage would still be 0.7 V because of the other diode's anode, and its cathode would be 0 V because of the ground. If this isn't correct what would it be?
 
  • #11
With diode 1 out of the picture because it's assumed to be off (reverse biased), it's anode voltage cannot be presumed to be 0.7V. It will depend upon the potential drop from +5V that occurs across the 10k resistance. We can only presume that it will turn out to be less than 0.7V (and thus verify our assumption about D1 being off).

The way to proceed is to determine the potential there by further analysis. Write a node equation for that node assuming that D1 is off and D1 on. Solve for the node voltage.
 
  • #12
gneill said:
With diode 1 out of the picture because it's assumed to be off (reverse biased), it's anode voltage cannot be presumed to be 0.7V. It will depend upon the potential drop from +5V that occurs across the 10k resistance. We can only presume that it will turn out to be less than 0.7V (and thus verify our assumption about D1 being off).

The way to proceed is to determine the potential there by further analysis. Write a node equation for that node assuming that D1 is off and D1 on. Solve for the node voltage.

Doing node voltage analysis at the anode:

(Vn-5)/10k + (Vn-0.7)/5k = 0

I get the voltage at the node, Vn = 2.133 V. This isn't less than 0.7 V though, did I do the analysis incorrectly?
 
  • #13
izelkay said:
Doing node voltage analysis at the anode:

(Vn-5)/10k + (Vn-0.7)/5k = 0

I get the voltage at the node, Vn = 2.133 V. This isn't less than 0.7 V though, did I do the analysis incorrectly?
Nope. You've missed out the -5V source in the second term.
 
  • #14
gneill said:
Nope. You've missed out the -5V source in the second term.
Hm okay if I move the 0.7 V source below that 5k resistor, would I need to "step up" by 0.7 V from the -5 V source?
So:

(Vn-5)/10k + (Vn-(-5+0.7))/5k = 0

(Vn-5)/10k + (Vn+4.3)/5k = 0

Vn = -1.2 V
 
  • #15
Yup.
 
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  • #16
izelkay said:
I was under the impression that it'd be something like this:
gpIS4.png

Even though the diode's off I thought the anode's voltage would still be 0.7 V because of the other diode's anode, and its cathode would be 0 V because of the ground. If this isn't correct what would it be?
Your picture is correct.
So now you can ignore diode 1, right?
So now, what's the voltage across the two resistors? The current? Then, what is the cathode voltage, considering the 5K resistor goes to -5V?
 
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  • #17
rude man said:
Your picture is correct.
So now you can ignore diode 1, right?
So now, what's the voltage across the two resistors? The current? Then, what is the cathode voltage, considering the 5K resistor goes to -5V?
Think I got it now. The current through the 2nd diode is 0.62 mA, and the cathode voltage of the 2nd diode is -1.2 - 0.7 = -1.9 V. (Solved for the anode voltage above).
 
  • #18
izelkay said:
Think I got it now. The current through the 2nd diode is 0.62 mA, and the cathode voltage of the 2nd diode is -1.2 - 0.7 = -1.9 V. (Solved for the anode voltage above).
You got it 100%!
You could also have gone
i = 0.62 mA
therefore. drop across the 5K is 0.62mA*5K = 3.1V
but the bottom of the 5K is at -5V
so the top must be at 3.1 - 5 = -1.9V.

.
 
Last edited:
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What is the Constant Voltage Drop (CVD) model for diode circuits?

The CVD model is a simplified mathematical representation of a diode circuit that assumes a constant voltage drop across the diode, typically around 0.7 volts for silicon diodes and 0.3 volts for germanium diodes.

How accurate is the CVD model compared to the real diode behavior?

The CVD model is an approximation and may not accurately reflect the behavior of a real diode circuit in all cases. It is most useful for analyzing simple diode circuits with low currents.

What are the limitations of using the CVD model for diode circuits?

The CVD model does not take into account factors such as temperature, reverse breakdown voltage, and leakage current, which can significantly affect the behavior of a diode circuit. It is also not suitable for analyzing circuits with high frequencies or high currents.

How do you calculate the voltage drop across a diode using the CVD model?

To calculate the voltage drop across a diode using the CVD model, simply subtract the CVD value (typically 0.7V for silicon diodes) from the voltage at the anode of the diode. This will give you an approximate value for the voltage at the cathode of the diode.

Can the CVD model be used for analyzing complex diode circuits?

No, the CVD model is only suitable for simple diode circuits with low currents. For more complex circuits, a more detailed model that takes into account the non-linear behavior of diodes is required.

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