Time Dilation Paradox: Geosynchronous Satellites

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the apparent paradox of time dilation as it relates to geosynchronous satellites, focusing on the effects of altitude and velocity on time perception. Participants explore the implications of gravitational time dilation and kinematic time dilation, questioning how these factors interact in the context of satellites in orbit.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that time moves faster at higher altitudes and slower at higher speeds, leading to a perceived paradox for geosynchronous satellites.
  • Others argue that the gravitational effect of being high above the Earth outweighs the kinematic effect of moving quickly in orbit.
  • A participant emphasizes the need for clarity in statements about time dilation, noting that time is always measured as one second per second relative to an observer's frame of reference.
  • One participant draws an analogy between the time dilation paradox and a scenario involving weight gain and loss due to eating and exercising, suggesting a similar complexity in understanding the interactions of different effects.
  • Another participant points out that free-fall orbital speed decreases with altitude, which may influence the discussion on the dynamics of geosynchronous satellites.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the paradox, with no consensus reached on how the effects of altitude and speed interact in the context of time dilation for geosynchronous satellites.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the effects of altitude and velocity on time dilation, as well as the lack of specific definitions for terms used. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical implications of these effects.

InquiringMind
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Time moves faster when higher above the earth. Time move slower the faster you are moving. A geosynchronous satellite has to be very high to be geosynchronous so it's time should be fast, but it also has to be orbiting the earth extremely fast to keep up with a geosynchronous position, so it's time should be slow. This seems like a paradox to me.
 
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InquiringMind said:
This seems like a paradox to me.
Why? It's just two competing effects.
 
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InquiringMind said:
A geosynchronous satellite has to be very high to be geosynchronous so it's time should be fast
In that case the gravitational effect wins over the kinematic effect

Time_Dilation_vs_Orbital_Height.png
 
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InquiringMind said:
Time moves faster when higher above the earth. Time move slower the faster you are moving
Just to be sure you are clear, neither one of these statements is true as an absolute statement. What you have left out is "relative to <something>". That is, your time ALWAYS moves at one second per second no matter where you are in a gravity well or how fast you are moving relative to something else.

Time APPEARS, to a different observer, to move a differing rates relative to that observer's rate, depending on relative depth in a gravity well and relative speed.
 
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InquiringMind said:
Time moves faster when higher above the earth. Time move slower the faster you are moving. A geosynchronous satellite has to be very high to be geosynchronous so it's time should be fast, but it also has to be orbiting the earth extremely fast to keep up with a geosynchronous position, so it's time should be slow. This seems like a paradox to me.
If you eat too much food, you put on weight. If you exercise a lot, you lose weight. If you eat a lot and exercise a lot you should put on weight and you should lose weight. Is that a paradox too?
 
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InquiringMind said:
it also has to be orbiting the earth extremely fast to keep up with a geosynchronous position
Free-fall orbital speed decreases with altitude.
 

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