Are EM waves reflected by inducing Hertzian dipoles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mechanism of electromagnetic (EM) wave reflection, specifically examining the role of Hertzian dipoles and the atomic structure of materials. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of how reflection occurs in different materials, including metals and quartz, and the implications of dipole moments in these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how Hertzian dipoles relate to the reflection of EM waves, seeking clarification on their representation in materials like wood.
  • Another participant suggests that the dipole moment of atoms or molecules in reflective materials is crucial, as the incident EM wave causes these dipoles to move and re-radiate the wave, leading to reflection.
  • A different viewpoint argues that in metals, the dense cloud of mobile electrons rather than localized dipoles is responsible for re-radiation, proposing an analysis using antenna array theory for radiation patterns.
  • Some participants emphasize the role of both unbound and bound electrons in metals, noting that thermal considerations affect their interaction with photons and the reflection process.
  • There is a challenge regarding the reflective properties of quartz compared to metals, with questions about the effectiveness of quartz as a reflector and the role of relative permittivity in determining reflection factors.
  • Another participant clarifies that while quartz reflects light, it is not as effective as metals, and discusses the movement of positive charges in a lattice structure in response to EM waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of atomic structure and dipole moments in the reflection of EM waves. There is no consensus on the role of Hertzian dipoles versus the behavior of electrons in metals and other materials, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the comparative effectiveness of quartz as a reflector.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the interaction of EM waves with different materials, including assumptions about charge movement and the complexity of atomic structures. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the mechanisms involved in EM wave reflection.

Kara386
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A comment a lab script for a recent experiment I did noted that the mechanism by which reflection of EM waves occurs is through the induction of Hertzian dipoles in a material.

Having read up on Hertzian dipoles, I have found nothing which discusses them in the context of reflection. I read that a Hertzian dipole is essentially two small spherical conductors connected by a wire, with charge flowing periodically between them, or something that can be approximated by this. I find it very hard to understand how, for example, a plank of wood would support or even vaguely resemble such a system.

To summarise, can someone explain how Hertzian dipoles are the mechanism by which EM waves are reflected, or point me to resources that explain this? What bit corresponds to the spheres and which bit to the wire?
 
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You must look at the molecular or atomic structure of the reflective material. The atom or molecule will have a dipole moment. That is, one end will be slightly more negative and the other end will be slightly more positive. The incident EM wave operates on the dipole by moving it. As it returns to its normal position it re-radiates the EM wave thus reflecting it.
 
billslugg said:
You must look at the molecular or atomic structure of the reflective material. The atom or molecule will have a dipole moment. That is, one end will be slightly more negative and the other end will be slightly more positive. The incident EM wave operates on the dipole by moving it. As it returns to its normal position it re-radiates the EM wave thus reflecting it.
I don't think the atomic structure is relevant here because, for instance, in a metal we can consider it to be filled with a dense cloud of mobile electrons. The electrons will move under the influence of the incident electric field in a uniform way over whatever area is involved, and will produce re-radiation. There are, therefore, no localised dipoles involved. However, if wishing to analyse the radiation pattern of a reflector using antenna array theory, the surface may be divided into rectangles about half x quarter wavelength, and each of these may be considered to be a dipole radiator forming part of a large array.
 
Yes, a metal has a very large number of unbound electrons which are available for collision with a photon. There are also many bound electrons. Thermal considerations determine the ratios. Any charge will be moved by an EM wave. On non dipole atomic structures, the two charges cancel out and no motion happens. A dipole atom or moleculre in an atomic lattice can collide with and re-emit photons from any of the charge centers.

If only unbound electrons could interact with photons, poor conductors such as quartz should not reflect light well. The opposite is true.
 
billslugg said:
Yes, a metal has a very large number of unbound electrons which are available for collision with a photon. There are also many bound electrons. Thermal considerations determine the ratios. Any charge will be moved by an EM wave. On non dipole atomic structures, the two charges cancel out and no motion happens. A dipole atom or moleculre in an atomic lattice can collide with and re-emit photons from any of the charge centers.

If only unbound electrons could interact with photons, poor conductors such as quartz should not reflect light well. The opposite is true.
Is the last statement really true? Is quartz a good reflector? It is, after all, used for lenses. The relative permittivity determines the reflection factor, and most dielectrics have a relative permittivity of less than ten, so the reflection cannot be as good as a metal.
Also, am I correct that a heavy charge, such as a positive ion, will not be moved easily an EM wave, but the associated electrons will respond easily?
 
Quartz is a good reflector but not as good as metals.

The incident EM wave will move positive charges bonded to the lattice. Since their effective masses are very large, dut to being locked in a lattice, their recoil velocity and distance is really small. It is essentially recoiless. Very similar to Mossbauer absorption.

The free electrons, being unbound, will respond quickly. This is why an EM wave cannot penetrate more than a few microns into any metal.
 

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