Are point particles always points?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of point particles in quantum mechanics, specifically addressing whether particles like electrons can be considered true points and how their wave characteristics relate to their position and probability. The scope includes theoretical interpretations of quantum mechanics and the implications of wave-particle duality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons are 0-dimensional points, with their wave characteristics determining probabilities of location.
  • Others argue that the wave-particle duality is not viewed the same way in modern physics, emphasizing that quantum mechanics describes observable results rather than classical visualizations.
  • A participant notes that while electrons are treated as point particles, the inherent uncertainty in their position complicates the notion of them being strictly point-like.
  • It is suggested that probing electrons with higher energy may localize them better, but will not reveal any substructure, unlike protons which contain quarks.
  • One participant mentions that the assertion about electrons being point particles holds true in the Bohmian interpretation of quantum mechanics, but may not apply universally across other interpretations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of point particles and wave-particle duality, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus on the nature of electrons and other quantum objects.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics, the unresolved nature of potential substructure in particles, and the implications of measurement on the understanding of particle characteristics.

jaydnul
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Tell me if I am correct:

The wave part of wave-particle duality is a probability wave. An electron, for example, is always a 0 dimensional point (as far as we know), and the wave characteristic of the electron determines the possible locations of the electron and probability of finding it in that location.
 
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Well first off the wave particle duality isn't really how its looked from the modern perspectice:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=511178

The real answer is that for all quantum objects we know of position is an observable and nothing has revealed any type of spread out structure etc for objects like an electron or photon - neutrons, protons etc - yes - but they are not considered fundamental.

Basically QM is a theory about the results of observations, measurements etc etc and since we can devise experiments that return a position we say they are point like particles - but quantum particles - not how they are visualized classically.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited:
Jd0g33 said:
Tell me if I am correct:

The wave part of wave-particle duality is a probability wave. An electron, for example, is always a 0 dimensional point (as far as we know), and the wave characteristic of the electron determines the possible locations of the electron and probability of finding it in that location.

Yes, that's correct. But given the inherent and unavoidable uncertainty in its position, the statement "the electron is always a 0 dimensional point" is a bit misleading. What "point particle" really means is that the electron and its wavefunction have no substructure - the more energy you use to probe it the better you will localize it (although never with perfect accuracy), and you will never discover any new level of complexity. You'll just keep squeezing the wavefunction down into a smaller and smaller region.

That's by contrast with for instance a proton, where if you probe with enough energy you discover quarks. And of course electrons may well have substructure too at some small length we haven't reached yet (for example at the Planck length something different has to happen).
 
Jd0g33 said:
Tell me if I am correct:

The wave part of wave-particle duality is a probability wave. An electron, for example, is always a 0 dimensional point (as far as we know), and the wave characteristic of the electron determines the possible locations of the electron and probability of finding it in that location.
This is absolutely correct in the Bohmian interpretation of quantum mechanics, but not necessarily in other interpretations.
 

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