Are Subarus Worth the Investment for Performance and Reliability?

[Mattara]

Yes, I would buy an American car. What is wrong with american cars?

Edit: This thread is strange, there is no initial post all of a sudden :S

 

[heartless]

If it satisfies my needs, then certainly. Chavs are good, and they're American. :-)

By the way, how did you make a thread without initial post?

 

[Evo]

Honestly, I wish I could say that I would buy another American car, but it won't happen.

I've owned quite a few cars both American and foreign and the American cars were all cr@p, always breaking down, always in the dealership from day one. The only problem I've had with a foreign car was with a BMW that had an electrical problem, the engine fuse kept shorting out. I ended up keeping a box of fuses in the glove compartment.

I have two cars right now, my American car is at the dealership right now, AGAIN, well it spends most of it's life being towed in with one problem after another. I'm thinking of sueing the dealership, long story. My foreign car has had zero problems. This is how it has Always been.

 

[larkspur]

Not unless it was made in Japan

 

[chroot]

My parents have always been loyalists, and have always had American cars. They have always sucked. Transmission rebuilds after 32k miles? Electrical problems that no one can solve?

My girlfriend and I both have Hondas. I have an S2000, which is a little two-seat roadster. You'd think it would be likely to have a higher failure rate, seeing as it's designed for performance and speed and what not. However, 100k miles later, I've done nothing but change fluids and brakes (twice) and tires (four times!). The engine and drivetrain are top-notch. The body is getting slowly beaten up by rocks and road debris, but it feels like the mechanicals will outlast the body. My girlfriend's Civic has likewise been virtually maintenance-free.

At this point in my life -- with the current trend of globalization meaning that "buying American" no longer means keeping the money in America -- I see absolutely no reason not to buy the best product on the market. The best cars on the market almost inarguably come from Japan.

- Warren

 

[Evo]

The best cars on the market almost inarguably come from Japan.

- Warren

Yep, Toyota and Honda. I've had SAABS & BMW's but they aren't as trouble free as Japanese cars.

 

[BobG]

I own two American cars: a Ford Explorer and a '91 Jeep Cherokee. The only problem I've had on the Ford was an ABS sensor. The Jeep takes some maintenance, but it has at least 150,000 miles on it (the odometer doesn't work). At least the Jeep is easy to work on myself.

In fact, I've only owned one foreign car: a Fiat 128 hatchback (the little rolling boxes). What a piece of junk. Of course, part of that is because I bought it used and the previous owner did his own electrical work. The radio didn't work. I installed my own 8-track, instead, so it was quite a while before I got around to looking at the wiring for the radio. The previous owner had wired the radio directly to the battery cable, which blew the 2.5 Amp fuse. Figuring maybe he misread it, he replaced the 2.5 Amp fuse with a 25 Amp fuse, which he blew. Wrapping the entire fuse in tin foil must have done the trick; but maybe not. The wire to the radio had eventually been disconnected and was sitting loose behind the dash. Hence dead batteries for no apparent reason and numerous other electrical failures whenever the wire wound up resting against something grounded.

Actually it was fun little car to drive and probably would have wound up being a good car if I hadn't burnt up the clutch. With the battery constantly dead, I often had to pop the clutch to start it, plus the brakes didn't work very well, so I usually had to downshift to bring the car to a stop in time (there finally came a time where the combination of the brake pedal to the floor, downshifting, and the emergency brake just wasn't adequate anymore and I wound up coming to a stop with an outboard motor from the boat trailer in front of me about six inches from the front windshield - I figured that was time to finally replace the brake pads). And, of course, with new brakes and a new clutch, I finally blew the engine.

 

[scorpa]

My parents have had nothing but American cars and trucks and never had problems with them. They don't have anything against foreign vehicles we just don't have any dealers in the area that sell them. I know quite a few people who have American made trucks with over 500 000 km's on them and they are still going strong...one guy's chevy silverado just turned one million klicks and somehow it's still going. There are lemons in every bunch american made or foreign made, doesn't mean they don't make good vehicles. Someone I know just traded his old ford truck in for a Toyota and the thing has been in and out of the shop since he bought it, Toyota makes good trucks but every manufacturer will kick out a lemon once in a while.

 

[mattmns]

Would you buy an American car?

Probably not.

 

[FredGarvin]

I have had and do have both. I have a Chevy Blazer and a Honda Accord. We used to have a Honda Civic. I must say that I have not had that many issues with American cars that were serious show stoppers. The knocks I have had on them were very specific, such as interior components that did not fit right and squeek and rattle issues out the wazoo. My American cars required basic maintenance like fluids, rotations, brakes, etc...nothing major.

That being said, the Civic and the Accord opened my eyes as to what I was missing. Even though they are hardly considered sporty or even noteworthy, I am very impressed by them. The Civic, at 150k miles drove as well as it did when it was new. It's interior had no squuks or problems even after many cold-hot yearly cycles. From an engineering standpoint, I am very very impressed.

I will also say that a lot of people that I know that have had really serious problems with a vehicle, broke the cardinal rule...never buy a first or second production year vehicle. I have seen what happens in assembly plants and there are tons of things that get pushed through to get the car out in time. 'We'll fix it at the dealer' is a battle cry of new launch vehicles.

Will I buy American again? Yes. However, you have to do your homework before you buy.

 

[ShawnD]

PF crashed when I was making this thread so I'll need to repost the initial

Ford, Dodge, and GM are offering 0% interest rates on 6 year lease plans. On the other side of things you have Honda and Toyota keeping their interest rates at 5.9% for Honda and 3.9% for Toyota. Ford, Dodge, and GM are giving all sorts of discounts such as family pricing and cash allowances. Honda and Toyota give absolutely no slack on price. Ford, Dodge, and GM have a low base cost for their cars, so you can get something like a Ford Focus for around $7,000 less than a Honda Civic with similar features (power locks, power windows, AC, cruise, etc), which means the Focus is around 30% cheaper to drive off the lot if you pay cash.

Despite all of these things, Honda and Toyota absolutely dominate the market of new cars. I can't say the same for used cars because people simply do not sell Honda or Toyota vehicles; a Honda Civic with 90,000 km on the odometer is only worth about $2000 less than a brand new Civic. If you buy something like a Ford Focus, it is worth $2000 less the second you drive it off the lot, and you'll have a hard time selling it.

Ford and GM have had their bond ratings cut to "junk status" meaning it's a high risk to invest in them. While companies like GM continually lose market share and layoff thousands of people, companies like Toyota are building new factories in Canada and the US.


It really seems like people no longer want American cars. Where do you stand?

 

[FredGarvin]

I don't think that people don't necessarily think that they never want to buy American again. I think most will. However, the recent developments are exactly what the American companys need as a kick in the ass to get rid of the old mentality they have had for doing business. They are realizing (painfully slowly) that they don't have a captive audience any longer.

 

[Evo]

I don't think that people don't necessarily think that they never want to buy American again. I think most will. However, the recent developments are exactly what the American companys need as a kick in the ass to get rid of the old mentality they have had for doing business. They are realizing (painfully slowly) that they don't have a captive audience any longer.

If an American car company wants to give me a free new car to drive for a couple of years to convince me they no longer suck, I might buy another one.

 

[Astronuc]

If an American, meaning GM, Chrysler, Ford were built like a Honda, I'd but it. For now, I buy Honda. Next car will be a Civic of some kind - maybe hybrid - but a Civic 4 dr sedan.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm happy with my Ford Focus. If I didn't live around mountains, I'd keep it until it died, and then get another of the same thing. Very dent resistant, runs well (I haven't had any problems at all with it), gets good gas mileage, and was the best price for that size and class of car when I bought it. I did a lot of comparison shopping at the time, and it came out the best for what I needed. However, I need to upgrade to something with all wheel drive or 4 WD (hopefully I'll have time to go car shopping before the bad weather hits again...I'm not in a hurry, just want to get it before winter hits hard), and there isn't anything the American manufacturers offer that suits what I'm looking for this time around. They also have a big gap in the mid-size car range...it seems you can get a decent compact car, or a decent monster SUV, but if you just want something in between, forget it.

But, even though all my cars have been from the same manufacturer, most of that has been happenstance and that they just had what I wanted when I wanted it. I've comparison shopped with other manufacturers, and will continue to do so each time I'm looking for something different. If price wasn't a factor on my last purchase, I'd have chosen another manufacturer. And, by contrast, while I've had good experiences with Ford, I would never, ever, ever buy a Chevy. I just cannot stand the way they feel when I've driven any of them. They all feel so soft and squishy and unresponsive.

 

[NoTime]

I have a couple Dodge vans 300k and 150k.
Err, its now a German Company.
So far the 150k one has been brakes and an EGR valve, with a couple misc items while under warentee.

I've had foreign cars.
My big gripe with them is the cost of repair parts.
For example, once I had to replace the exact same part for a foreign ($70.00) and american car($1.50). The parts were close enough in design that I tried to use the american part, but the screw holes didn't quite line up.

 

[Kurdt]

Being European perhaps my perspective is skewed slightly but I wouldn't buy american. In europe they do have quite the reputation for being expensive and prone to break downs.

I did hear recently that GM and ford and other american car companies were really struggling to stay afloat so I presume all these deals they're offering are just a gimmick to try and get people to be loyal to them again in light of flagging sales.

 

[rcgldr]

I have no brand or country of origin loyalty here. I've owned American and Japanese cars. I live in the USA, and don't like German cars because of the expensive parts and maintainance. Regarding motorcycles, I would never own a Harley. In the distance past, I owned a English made Norton 850 Commando, but now I ride a Japanese Suzuki Hayabusa.

My wife drives an Infinity SUV, and I just got a 2006 Z06 Corvette, just because I've always wanted a 500+hp super car, and the Vette is the cheapest supercar around. I'm not too worried about maintainance, as I also got a 7 year, 0 deductibe warranty. In the past I've owned a Caterham SV, a Pontiac Trans-Am, a Ford Mustang, a Toyota Corolla, a 1969 Dodge Charger R/T, ... (I'm 54 years old in case you're wondering). Typically I buy a new car once every 7 to 10 years (except the Caterham was only 3 years old when I sold it, since the only guy that could work on it's custom engine was now in San Francico, so I sold it to someone there).

 

[Moonbear]

I did hear recently that GM and ford and other american car companies were really struggling to stay afloat so I presume all these deals they're offering are just a gimmick to try and get people to be loyal to them again in light of flagging sales.

I don't know if that's the reason behind them. I think they messed up on their marketing strategies. Several years ago, when loan interest rates were up ridiculously high, people weren't buying ANY new cars...not just American, but were just plain avoiding car loans if they couldn't purchase outright. So, they started these promotions of 0% interest, or really low, like 0.2% interest to entice buyers back. It wasn't just the American manufacturers who did that. But, the American manufacturers kept it up a few more years as a promotion to get the leftover cars off the lot before the new model year came in (usually they arrive in August or September). They've now done it long enough that people won't buy a car any other time of year because they're waiting for the promotional deals with low or no interest loans. Even if you can afford to pay cash, why not sign up for a 0%, same as cash, loan and spread the payments out a bit while you earn interest on your money instead of paying interest on it?

 

[Pengwuino]

Electrical problems that no one can solve?

Holy crap, my Grand Prix (pontiac is american right? or am i not a guy) has like a ghost inside its electrical system. I think we've sent it into 3 people and the same problems keep coming up (and with the last "fix", i lost the ability to use cruise control ). What a bastard! But no 34k mile transmission problems at least...

I got to hand it to my dad though... i always made fun of his little Ford Ranger... but I think that thing went like 120,000 miles without as much as a headlight going out... or at least not requiring new transmissions or major things like that. Then it was smashed by a weed smoking kid. Bye bye truck.

 

[turbo]

I have bought only Japanese vehicles for decades. I bought my Datsun 4x4 pickup the same year they were introduced. The same with my first Pathfinder, and my 240 SX. I would NEVER advise anyone to buy an American vehicle in the first model year, but I trust Nissan. My Pathfinder lasted 17 years with not a single mechanical problem, just routine maintenance. I finally sold it because the winter road-salt had eaten a good percentage of the frame and my mechanic told me that he felt that it might be unsafe to keep driving it. I went out and bought a 6-year old Nissan 4x4 (2400 cc 4-cylinder) with about 70,000 miles on it and hope to get at least a 200,000 to 250,000 out of it.

My only American vehicle is a H-D Softail.

My wife's car is a 2002 Subaru Legacy. It is remarkably stable in all situations - better than my 4x4 in snow or dicey ice/rain conditions. It's an AWD with traction control and anti-lock brakes. The power-to-weight ratio is very good, yet you cannot make it slip a tire under heavy acceleration. Not a squeak. It just throws you back in the seat.

 

[Chi Meson]

I'm on my third Toyota:
1978 Celica (bought used in 1984- ran till junked in 1989 at 120,000 miles; totally my fault, I never changed the oil)
1993 Tercel (bought used in 1997, sold it Last March for $1000 with 160,000 miles, still running like new)
2004 Sienna (bought used last January).

 

[Moonbear]

I have bought only Japanese vehicles for decades. I bought my Datsun 4x4 pickup the same year they were introduced. The same with my first Pathfinder, and my 240 SX. I would NEVER advise anyone to buy an American vehicle in the first model year, but I trust Nissan. My Pathfinder lasted 17 years with not a single mechanical problem, just routine maintenance. I finally sold it because the winter road-salt had eaten a good percentage of the frame and my mechanic told me that he felt that it might be unsafe to keep driving it. I went out and bought a 6-year old Nissan 4x4 (2400 cc 4-cylinder) with about 70,000 miles on it and hope to get at least a 200,000 to 250,000 out of it.

My only American vehicle is a H-D Softail.

My wife's car is a 2002 Subaru Legacy. It is remarkably stable in all situations - better than my 4x4 in snow or dicey ice/rain conditions. It's an AWD with traction control and anti-lock brakes. The power-to-weight ratio is very good, yet you cannot make it slip a tire under heavy acceleration. Not a squeak. It just throws you back in the seat.

I don't know about Nissan. My aunt and uncle had a Pathfinder, and it was nothing but trouble. I guess everyone has a chance of getting a vehicle with defective parts, and we tend to decide it's a problem endemic to the manufacturer of that vehicle than just that we got the one bad vehicle.

LOL, Penguino, about the Ranger. My step-dad had gotten one of those flare-sides the year they came back out (nostalgia of what pick-ups used to look like) in hot pink ("Iris" he would correct me..."mid-life crisis" I would correct him). I never stopped making fun of that truck, even got him the Matchbox truck of the same style and color to remind him it was just a big toy. But, geez, that thing just ran and ran! He eventually had to sell it because they got a boat and needed a bigger truck to tow it, so he lost the battle of which vehicle to get rid of for the new truck.

turbo, yep, Subaru's have a great reputation. That's what I'm looking into most seriously for my next car. I prefer the Impreza over the Legacy, but need to find more people who have owned one to find out if it handles the snowy roads as well as the Legacy. I know people are very happy with the Legacy, but that's so NOT my style...but, if that's the thing that'll safely get me back and forth to the farm on snowy nights, then I'll have to live with it, because function is more important than appearances when it comes to cars. My buying decisions are shaped quite differently when I have to think about snowy mountain roads than when it was mostly flat city streets (the Focus is an excellent commuter vehicle if you just need to get from suburbs to city, but it lacks the weight and power for mountains).

 

[ShawnD]

Holy crap, my Grand Prix (pontiac is american right? or am i not a guy) has like a ghost inside its electrical system. I think we've sent it into 3 people and the same problems keep coming up (and with the last "fix", i lost the ability to use cruise control ). What a bastard! But no 34k mile transmission problems at least...

GM vehicles are notorious for bad electrical systems. My friend's GM Safari (minivan) has one tiny wire connecting the battery to the power windows, so if you try to close 2 windows at once they both slow to a crawl and you can smell burning plastic inside the vehicle.
My parents last cars were GM. Mechanically they were great reliable cars, but the electrical system would do things like mysteriously kill the battery, burn out the alternator, burn out the rear power windows, and burn out a few of the dash gauges.

 

[J77]

Ford make good cars.

The pick-up is the biggest selling motor vehicle in the world. However, I believe it's classified as a van (or something...). Therefore, it doen't have to comply to the car regulations regarding safety, ie. it's a bit rubbish. And, nearly all of them are sold in NA (ref: some old show on last season's Top Gear )

The focus is nice - especially the RS version

(Do they sell that in the states?)

Check ths: http://[MEDIA=youtube

And the focus RS!: http://[MEDIA=youtube

 

[rcgldr]

Jeremy didn't like the new ZO6 for the street, but he did like it for the track. There are a few "bugs" in this video, Jeremy starts off in 5th gear, claiming it can go 175mph in 5th, but the car reaches it's top speed in 5th gear, 198mph at 6330rpm (redline is 7000 rpm, but power peak, 505+hp occurs at 6300rpm). In that scene in with the 5th gear start, there are 3 shots of the tach and speedo, the car is in 3rd gear for the 1st two shots, and 4th for the last one, but most wouldn't notice.

z06tg.wmv

Tiff liked it though, although he spends most of the time burning up the rear tires:

z065g.wmv

and this kid was happy with the standard 2006 Corvette

vtdrm.wmv

 

[J77]

Jz06tg.wmv

I remember that one.

Nice car!

 

[Kurdt]

7.0 litres and only 500 bhp that's shocking!

The Koenigsegg CCX has 806 from a 4.7 litre engine.

 

[FredGarvin]

Holy crap, my Grand Prix (pontiac is american right? or am i not a guy) has like a ghost inside its electrical system. I think we've sent it into 3 people and the same problems keep coming up (and with the last "fix", i lost the ability to use cruise control ). What a bastard! But no 34k mile transmission problems at least...

I'll lay you dollars to donuts that it's a ground issue. Trying to find an intermittent ground is a pain in the arse. I have had a few of them. Not fun at all.

 

[rcgldr]

7.0 litres and only 500 bhp. The Koenigsegg CCR has 806 from a 4.7 litre engine.

The Koenigsegg CCR is using a supercharged engine, the Z06 engine is naturally aspirated. So yes, the Koenigsegg CCR is a much faster car, but it cost 10 times as much. There are a few cars faster than the Z06. The Porche Carerra GT (600hp), Ferrari Enzo, Veyron, ... but all of these cost a lot more. The Corvette can always be souped up, but there's a point of diminishing returns. First gear pulls to 60mph and would smoke the tires it wasn't for the traction control cutting fuel to one or more cylinders as needed. Class "A" gas dragsters can make 1600hp from supercharged V8's, but those engines aren't going to last long.

Still it's a 427 (cubic inch) Corvette, a "classic". It redlines just a bit over 7,000 rpm which is pretty fast for a 7.0 liter V8.

A Champ Car (the followon to CART after CART split from IRL), makes 775hp from a turbocharged 2.65 liter engine, and about 850hp with increased boost when the "push to pass" feature is used. CART cars without the 8500rpm rev limit rules were making close to 1000hp. These cars are running on methanol instead of gas though. The late 199x CART cars were some of the fastest (top speed) cars around. During qualifcation, a few were reaching 265mph at the end of the straights at California Speedway. Paul Tracy recorded a trap speed of 257mph during a race at the Michigan 500. Champ cars don't run on high speed ovals, only the IRL cars and Nascar and the speeds are way down from what the CART cars were doing in their heyday.

 

[Kurdt]

Well yeah the supercharging helps but the BMW M5 is normally aspirated (I think) and that pulls 507 bhp from 5 litres capacity. I'd imagine the corvette costs a fair bit in fuel. The new honda civic has improved its performance and power by taking the rev line up to 10,000 revs and many of the companies involved in formula 1 are taking similar steps. Should be interesting to see what can happen.

The Caparo T1 coming out very soon has a normally aspirated 2.4 v8 producing 500bhp that's been developed from F1 technology. Of course this car is wildly expensive as well but I love the engineering miracles at play.

 

[Stingray]

Well yeah the supercharging helps but the BMW M5 is normally aspirated (I think) and that pulls 507 bhp from 5 litres capacity. I'd imagine the corvette costs a fair bit in fuel. The new honda civic has improved its performance and power by taking the rev line up to 10,000 revs and many of the companies involved in formula 1 are taking similar steps. Should be interesting to see what can happen.

Quoting power/liter is really pointless. The Z06 Corvette is actually the most fuel efficient car in its performance class.

Displacement also has little correlation to physical size. Pushrods are very efficient at saving space. For example, the Z06 engine weighs less than the 5 liter V10 in the M5. It even weighs less than the 3.6 liter flat-6 in a 993 turbo (I don't know about the newer ones).

Also, all performance cars try to maximize power by increasing revs. If you can maintain torque and reliability at higher speeds, you automatically get more power. That's nothing new. There are just a lot of tradeoffs that have to be dealt with in practice. By the way, no stock Civic (or any other production car) revs to 10k.

 

[Andy]

I was told by someone that i work with that the Honda Integra type R (previous model) red lined at 8,500rpm. I would take that as being fact unless i have misheard him because he used to own one and used to work in a honda dealership.

 

[Kurdt]

Quoting power/liter is really pointless. The Z06 Corvette is actually the most fuel efficient car in its performance class.

Displacement also has little correlation to physical size. Pushrods are very efficient at saving space. For example, the Z06 engine weighs less than the 5 liter V10 in the M5. It even weighs less than the 3.6 liter flat-6 in a 993 turbo (I don't know about the newer ones).

Also, all performance cars try to maximize power by increasing revs. If you can maintain torque and reliability at higher speeds, you automatically get more power. That's nothing new. There are just a lot of tradeoffs that have to be dealt with in practice. By the way, no stock Civic (or any other production car) revs to 10k.

Well I'm a fool when it comes to knowing how the engines actually work so that's all I like to look at There are no production cars that rev to 10k revs but the new civic type-r concept has been rumoured to be getting a tweaking to 10k revs while the caparo T1 which is to be produced revs at 10 500 rpm perhaps I should have used a better wording so as to not infer that I was talking of a currently produced car.

Looks a nice car anyway for the price.

 

[rcgldr]

No stock Civic (or any other production car) revs to 10k.

The first year S2000 came close, 9000 rpm with a 2.0 4 cylinder engine, but now it's a 2.2 liter engine that revs to 8000 rpm, both make about 240hp. The new Honda Civic puts out 160hp at 6500 rpm, so the redline is probably a bit over 7000 rpm.

The Z06 engine, a V8 with 7.0 liters (427.6 in^2) revs to a pretty impressive 7,000 rpm, using light motorcycle like pistons that look more like thin disks than a normal piston.

Motorcycle engines rev high, 1.0 liter engines run over 13,000 rpm. The Suzuki Hayabusa engine, which is used in some kit cars, is a 1.3 liter engine that revs to 11,000 rpm. The Kawasaki ZX14 engine is a bit bigger, 1.35 liter, and still revs to 11,000 rpm (and I'm sure that these will end up in kit cars as well).

Some of the new V8 F1 race car engines rev around 19,000 rpm.

 

[Andy]

It won't be long until honda break the 10,000 rpm barrier.

If i remember rightly the BMW engine in the williams F1 car broke the 20,000 rpm barrier a few years ago using a V10, but that was before theY changed the rules on the technical side of F1.

 

[Kurdt]

Last weekend the mercedes benz in the mclaren broke 20 000rpm for the V8.

 

[chroot]

It isn't so much a "barrier" as it is a design decision. If you take an S2000 and mechanically force it above about 10,500 rpm, its pistons will hit its valves and it will self-destruct. The fuel limiter kicks in at 9k rpm, a decent safety margin below true mechanical redline.

The engine has to be designed from the start to support the timing of 10k+ rpm. You cannot "tweak it" past that design boundary.

- Warren

 

[rcgldr]

Integra type R - 195 horspower @ 8000 rpm, redline is 8400 rpm.

> It won't be long until honda break the 10,000 rpm barrier.

In their motorcycles they already do. But high revs were an issue for the S2000, so they increased displacement and lowered rev limit from 9000 to 8000.

Racing version of these cars don't have to run that many miles before engine rebuilds, so they often run the smaller engines past 10,000 rpm. As prevously posted, the F1 V8 engines are pushing 19,000 rpm, and get to 20,000 rpm for some manufacturers.

A 500 in^3 (8.19 liter) drag racing pro stock engine revs to 10,000 rpm, but these engines life times are measured in revolutions, a rebuild after each quarter mile run. Ditto with top fuel dragsters, also limited to 500 in^3, making over 6000 hp, rev limited to 8400 rpm.

 

[Kurdt]

I wasn't talking about tweaking as in modifying an existing engine I meant tweak as in whole new engine design. I do realize that pushing something beyond its design capability will destroy it in most cases. Anyway there will soon be a 10k+ rpm vehicle on the market in the form of the caparo T1 certainly and the honda civic type R concept is supposed to be having a new engine designed that will hit just about 10k revs.

The caparo T1 can be seen at its website here:

www.caparo-t1.com/[/URL]

along with its relevant specs.

As F1 tecnology pushes the boundaries in the racing field its also allowed higher revving engines to be built for performance road cars that have lifetimes that are no longer measured in 4 figure miles or revolutions. Of course they will not go as high as the race engines but you can't expect something on the limit of technological expertise to have a long lifetime.

 

[rcgldr]

you can't expect something on the limit of technological expertise to have a long lifetime.

Motorcycles are pretty close though, and they're next to bulletproof, as they get abused more than most cars. You can pretty much take a stock motocycle, switch to DOT tires or slicks, maybe do some external mods, like exhaust, and go racing. The bikes don't blow up, in spite of the very high rpms they run at, and serious track use.

 

[rcgldr]

Getting back on topic, I think the issue of quality varies from model to model, more than it does from brand to brand, mostly because the different models are built in different factories.

If I had to choose a "worst" brand, it would probably be Jaguar, where the manufacturing process is very dated. I read a recent article about a new executive at Ford dealing with this. For example, the tolerances on the rear quarter panels allows them to vary by as much as 1/4 inch, so the body parts have to be hand matched and/or post machined to make them fit.

Looking at that Top Gear review of the Ford pickup truck the dashboard is very ill fitted. However other cars made with the Ford brand are build with good manufacturing processes with tight tolerances.

A co-worker had a Honda Accord, which are normally reliable cars, but it had recurrent ECU problems requiring two replacements.

If I lived in Europe, I probably wouldn't buy a USA car as there is an apparently very high tariff. The Z06 I bought cost about $70k (US) here in the USA, but costs about $109k(US, 60,000 pounds) in the UK.

 

[turbo]

Getting back on topic, I think the issue of quality varies from model to model, more than it does from brand to brand, mostly because the different models are built in different factories.

It might be interesting to note that when Ford closed its Marysville OH plant, Honda bought it and started producing the Accord there. The Accord was designed for the American market and is not produced in Japan. It quickly became the most popular car in the US, due to its efficiency and reliability and it outsold the Ford Taurus consistently until Ford started buying its own Tauruses in bulk and leasing them to rental companies, counting them as if they were retail sales. I have had a Ford Taurus, an LTD, and an Aerostar as company cars, and I can tell you that I will never own a Ford vehicle after experiencing all the problems that I ran into with these relatively-new vehicles. If I was purchasing fleet vehicles, I would choose the Toyota Camry, the Honda Accord, and the Subaru Legacy or Forester (especially for sales/technical service in northern climates). For anybody looking to buy a car, I suggest you visit Cartalk http://www.cartalk.com/ and pay attention. The Camry and Accord are their top picks for reliability and longevity.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My first real car was a 240Z, which was Datsun back then, and for the last 600,000 miles+ we've been exclusively Toyota. There is no doubt in my mind that Toyota and Honda are head and shoulders above the rest for reasonably sized vehicles.

We have always had fewer car problems than most people we know. In over twenty years, the most extensive repair made to any car was for a leaky front crank seal. After that, two heater fans, one window, and otherwise, just normal maintenance. We sold the first one running with over 300,000 hard miles on it.

I recently learned that our relatively large Toyota gets better mileage than my parent's small Saturn.

 

[gravenewworld]

Would I buy an American car like this

http://www.calcruisingauctions.com/goodguys/P1010045.jpg

or this

http://library.thinkquest.org/04apr/01229/66cobra-10965-A.jpg






HELL YES.

 

[FredGarvin]

That Camaro is nice. Who picked out those god awful rims though?

 

[Andy]

Apart from the engine that AC cobra is a British car. Thats assuming that the car in the picture is a Shelby cobra and not the standard cobra which used a straight six bristol engine.

 

[rcgldr]

Hmm, I didn't realize that some of the import cars had so much hidden potential performance just waiting to be unlocked until I read the article below from a sports car magazine forum. It explains how to shave 2 seconds off the ET of a econobox to get it into the 14's, with virtually no cost modifications, a very informative thread, and a demonstration of thinking outside of the econobox.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=776885

 

[J77]

Can you still get insurance once you start fiddling around with imports tho'?

I see a lot of kids driving around in, eg. Skylines, these days, but have heard that if you crash them, you may as well buy a new one instead of paying the massive insurance.

 

[Anttech]

Apart from the engine that AC cobra is a British car. Thats assuming that the car in the picture is a Shelby cobra and not the standard cobra which used a straight six bristol engine.

I was about to say...

Anyway

The only American car I would buy would be a ford, either the new GT or old one, or perhaps a mustang (preferably one made in the 60's).