Are You Ready to Challenge Your Integral Solving Skills?

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  • Thread starter Thread starter Gib Z
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    Integrals
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Discussion Overview

The thread revolves around participants sharing and solving indefinite integrals, with varying levels of difficulty. The discussion includes requests for integrals, attempts at solving them, and exchanges of hints and strategies for integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a variety of indefinite integrals to assess their skills and learn from the community.
  • Another participant suggests starting with the integral of sqrt(tan(x)).
  • A different integral involving sin(x) is proposed, leading to expressions of confusion from some participants.
  • Several participants express difficulty with the proposed integrals and seek guidance on substitution methods.
  • Hints are provided, including suggestions for substitutions like u = tan(x) and changes of bounds to simplify integrals.
  • Participants discuss the use of integration by parts and hyperbolic substitutions, with varying levels of understanding and confidence.
  • There are corrections and clarifications regarding differentiation and integration techniques, highlighting misunderstandings among participants.
  • Some participants express frustration or confusion over the complexity of the integrals and the solutions provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no clear consensus on the best approach to solving the integrals, with multiple competing views and methods suggested. Participants express varying levels of understanding and confidence, leading to a mix of agreement and confusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants demonstrate uncertainty regarding the application of integration techniques and the correctness of their approaches. Some mathematical steps remain unresolved, and there are dependencies on specific substitutions that may not be universally understood.

  • #151
Not technically difficult, but a nice introduction to recurrence methods;

I = \int{e^x\cdot\sin(x)}\; dx
 
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  • #152
\int_0^{\pi} \frac{x \sin x}{1 + \cos^2 x} \; dx

and

\int_0^{\pi / 2} \frac{1}{1 + \tan^{\pi} x} \; dx

are interesting.
 
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  • #153
morphism: Neat, integrals I could do but not Mathematica. :)
 
  • #154
Hootenanny - I = e^x \sin x - \int e^x \cos x dx
\int e^x \cos x dx = e^x \cos x + I
I= \frac{e^x(\sin x - \cos x)}{2}

morphism - Using the standard result \int^a_0 f(x) dx = \int^a_0 f(a-x), your first integral is shown below:

I= \int^{\pi}_0 \frac{x\sin x}{1+\cos^2 x}dx = \int^{\pi}_0 \frac{\pi \sin x}{1+\cos^2 x}dx - I

2I = \pi \int^{\pi}_0 \frac{\sin x}{1+\cos^2 x} dx

Can't be bothered typing up all the latex, but basically u=cos x, and arctan form gets us :
I = \frac{\pi^2}{4}.

As for your second one, I find your torture methods interesting. We have a vacancy at Guantanamo Bay if you would like to apply.
 
  • #155
Hehe :smile:

(Your solution for the first one is correct of course. Good job!)
 
  • #156
how do i solve morphism's second one?
\int_0^{\pi / 2} \frac{1}{1 + \tan^{\pi} x} \; dx
 
  • #157
Use the "standard result" Gib posted (i.e. essentially the substitution u = pi/2 - x). Then mess around with things.
 
  • #158
Okay, one more trig one. I haven't looked through your previous post so I apologise if this has already been posted;

I = \int{\frac{dx}{4+\sin(x)}}
 
  • #159
Nvm Much easier than I thought. I didn't even give it a try because I seemed to think the exponent of pi was a bad sign.
Let I be the original Integral.
I= \int^{\pi/2}_0 \frac{1}{1+\tan^{\pi} x} dx = \int^{\pi/2}_0 \frac{1}{1+\cot^{\pi} x} dx.

2I = \int^{\pi/2}_0 \frac{1}{1+\tan^{\pi} x} dx + \int^{\pi/2}_0 \frac{1}{1+\cot^{\pi} x} dx = \int^{\pi/2}_0 \frac{1}{1+\cot^{\pi} x} + \frac{1}{1+\tan^{\pi} x} dx. Simple cross multiplying and expansion gets us 2I=\int^{\pi/2}_0 1 dx = \pi/2

Therefore I = \frac{\pi}{4}.

Nice ones morphism, got any more?
 
  • #160
Umm Hootenannys one took a while, I Basically did t=tan (x/2) and made it a rational function so on so forth.

I got \frac{2}{\sqrt{15}} \arctan \frac{4 \tan (x/2) +1}{\sqrt{15}} + C which seems like a hairy answer, I don't think I am right. I can't be stuffed to differentiate it to check lol.
 
  • #161
Nice ones morphism, got any more?
Here you go:

\int_0^{\pi / 2} \tan^{-1} x + \cot^{-1} x \; dx

These are inverses not reciprocals. (N.B.: There exists a solution that is one line long.)

\int_0^1 \frac{\log(x + 1)}{x^2 + 1} \; dx

\int_0^1 \frac{\log(x + 1)}{x} \; dx

\int_0^\pi \log (\sin x) \; dx
 
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  • #162
Hehe the first one is easier than I thought. I first tried u = arctan x + arccot x, but when I tried to find du I realized the derivative was 0, so I finally noticed it was a constant function. I tried x=1, the constant function is equal to pi/2, so the solution is \frac{\pi^2}{4}!

I couldn't do the 2nd one :(

Third one I did u= log (2), du/dx=1/x which is in there so all good.
So I integrated it and ended up with \frac{\log^2 (x+1)}{2}.

Last one, I split it up into 2 integrals, from 0 to pi/2, and pi/2 to pi.
Using symmetry arguments and the such, I got that it 2I= \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log(\sin x) dx = \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log(\cos x) dx but I am stuck from there.
 
  • #163
Use the property of logs that log(xy) = log(x) + log(y) with the double angle formula of the sine.
 
  • #164
I=\frac{1}{4} \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log_e (\frac{1}{2}\sin 2x) dx...I don't get it...
 
  • #165
Wait up I think I am getting it, Ill post it in 5 mins
 
  • #166
Nope lost again...
 
  • #167
Gib Z said:
Umm Hootenannys one took a while, I Basically did t=tan (x/2) and made it a rational function so on so forth.

I got \frac{2}{\sqrt{15}} \arctan \frac{4 \tan (x/2) +1}{\sqrt{15}} + C which seems like a hairy answer, I don't think I am right. I can't be stuffed to differentiate it to check lol.
Absolutely spot on Gib, it can't be simplified any further:approve:
 
  • #168
Gib Z said:
Hehe the first one is easier than I thought. I first tried u = arctan x + arccot x, but when I tried to find du I realized the derivative was 0, so I finally noticed it was a constant function. I tried x=1, the constant function is equal to pi/2, so the solution is \frac{\pi^2}{4}!
Yes, that's right, but there's a solution that'st truly one ling long. Yours involves differentiating things and evaluating it at a point, so it's longer than one line, especially if you don't know the derivatives of those things. :wink: The solution I have in mind is: Notice that arctan(x) and arccot(x) over [0, pi/2] correspond to the two accute angles in a right-angled triangle. So they add up to pi/2.

I couldn't do the 2nd one :(
How about setting x=tan(t)?

Third one I did u= log (2), du/dx=1/x which is in there so all good.
So I integrated it and ended up with \frac{\log^2 (x+1)}{2}.
I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you set u=log(x)? That doesn't help...

Last one, I split it up into 2 integrals, from 0 to pi/2, and pi/2 to pi.
Using symmetry arguments and the such, I got that it 2I= \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log(\sin x) dx = \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log(\cos x) dx but I am stuck from there.
That's good. Now use these to get I. (sin(x) = 2sin(x/2)cos(x/2) and log(xy) = log(x)+log(y).)
 
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  • #169
The third one I sed u = log(x+1), and that helps because du/dx = 1/x, which is there as well. So My solution for it was \frac{\ln 2)^2}{2}.

Last one, that's what i did and i got this!

I=\frac{1}{4} \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log_e (\frac{1}{2}\sin 2x) dx

Can't do that one!
 
  • #170
For the one you said x=tan t, I did it but I can finish off \int \ln (\tan t +1) dt
 
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  • #171
Gib Z said:
The third one I sed u = log(x+1), and that helps because du/dx = 1/x, which is there as well. So My solution for it was \frac{\ln 2)^2}{2}.
But du/dx isn't 1/x! It's 1/(x+1). :smile:

Last one, that's what i did and i got this!

I=\frac{1}{4} \int^{\pi/2}_0 \log_e (\frac{1}{2}\sin 2x) dx

Can't do that one!
OK, let's see.

I = \int_0^{\pi} \log(2) + \log(\sin \frac{x}{2}) + \log(\cos \frac{x}{2} ) \; dx

From your observations, we can see that this is just I = pi log(2) + I + I.
 
  • #172
MY GOD KILL ME, I really should have seen those >.< Staring me in the face..

Okie well its getting late here in Australia, Ill try again with the remaining 2 tomorrow.
 
  • #173
Gib Z said:
For the one you said x=tan t, I did it but I can finish off \int \ln (\tan t +1) dt
\ln (1 + \tan t) = \ln(\sin t + \cos t) - \ln(\cos t) = \ln \left( \sqrt2\cos(t - \frac{\pi}{4}) \right) - \ln(\cos t)

Good night!
 
  • #174
Ok I am back But for your hint on the x=tan t one, am I just awfully stupid or is that still quite hard to integrate..
 
  • #175
Here's the next step:

\ln(\sqrt 2) + \ln \left( \cos \left( t - \frac{\pi}{4} \right) \right) - \ln(\cos t)

Now use the limits of integration...
 
  • #176
Ok well that gets me to

\frac{\pi}{4} \log_e \sqrt{2} - \frac{\sqrt{2}}{2} - \int^{\pi/4}_0 \log_e \cos (\pi/4 - t) dt

Wait no it doesn't..i give up
 
  • #177
\int_0^{\pi/4} \ln \left( \cos \left( t - \frac{\pi}{4} \right) \right) \; dt - \int_0^{\pi/4} \ln(\cos t) \; dt = 0
 
  • #178
>.<" Sorry I must be really annoying and annoyed today, I got the first bit down to be the same as the second integral, but for some reason, ignoring that I used the same bounds property on the 2nd integral one as well. ~sigh~
 
  • #179
Made any progress with the other one? It's really slick. Possibly the most amusing of all the ones I posted.
 
  • #180
Amusing? I swear you work for the CIA, testing your torture methods on us!
 

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