B field of 1/2 infinite solenoid, equivalent current confguration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the exploration of whether a symmetric current configuration can replicate the magnetic field of a half-infinite solenoid. Participants consider various arrangements of current loops and solenoids, examining their implications for magnetic fields, including concepts related to monopoles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a configuration of half-infinite solenoids composed of small current loops that could produce the same magnetic field as a half-infinite solenoid, suggesting a density variation of 1/r².
  • Another participant expresses skepticism, arguing that a different current configuration cannot replicate the magnetic field of a semi-infinite solenoid, referencing a comparison with a uniformly magnetized cylinder.
  • A third participant reiterates the idea that combining solenoids with the same current orientation would yield a radial field, questioning the implications of adding more solenoids.
  • A later reply suggests that the discussion may be heading towards the concept of a magnetic monopole, linking to previous discussions on the topic.
  • One participant concludes that their initial thought process was incorrect, noting that a countable number of solenoids would result in an equal number of field lines going in and out, negating the monopole concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether alternative current configurations can replicate the magnetic field of a half-infinite solenoid. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments depend on the definitions of magnetic fields and current configurations, and there are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the proposed configurations and their implications.

Spinnor
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I have wondered if there is a symmetric current configuration that gives the magnetic field of a half-infinite solenoid. With some thought I think I came up with such a configuration of current loops that produces the same magnetic field as a half-infinite solenoid

Suppose we have a large but countable number of half-infinite solenoids whose ends all begin at some origin and that point in random directions. Consider each solenoid to be the sum of a large but countable number of very small current loops one stacked on top of the next.

If one half-infinite solenoid gives a radial magnetic field then so does the superposition of any number of half-infinite solenoids with random orientations as long as their ends all end at the origin. So we have a large but countable number of solenoids each composed of a large but countable number of very small current loops. This leads to the following picture.

Consider the magnetic field given by a large but countable number of very small current loops whose orientation all point away or towards the origin and whose density in space varies as 1/r^2 where r is the radial distance from the origin. There is an equivalent configuration, I think, where the loops are randomly distributed in space (again, all orientated towards or away from the origin) but the current in the loop goes as 1/r^2.

Does that seem right? Thanks.
 
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Your post is interesting, but I don't know that anything with a different current configuration will duplicate the magnetic field from a semi-infinite solenoid. ## \\ ## The semi-infinite solenoid has the same current configuration as a semi-infinite uniformly magnetized cylinder and has a single pole (surface) on the end face. By comparing the results from the pole model vs. surface current for a semi-infinite cylinder of uniform magnetization, and showing the results for ## B ## to be equal outside the cylinder, I was able to prove, with a couple additional steps, the magnetic pole model equation ## B=\mu_o ( H+M) ##. I did this calculation several years ago. Most E&M texts elude to the analogous electrostatic equation ## D=\epsilon_o E+P ##, but this is really very much a handwaving argument, and is very incomplete. I was very glad to finally prove this equation, and I was actually surprised that the ## B ## computed from the pole model is in 100% agreement with what the magnetic surface currents and Biot-Savart give. ## \\ ## I realize that my reply may be taking this off on a tangent. The Moderators should feel free to delete my post if they think it is not a suitable or relevant reply.
 
Last edited:
Charles Link said:
I don't know that anything with a different current configuration will duplicate the magnetic field from a semi-infinite solenoid.

Two such solenoids whose ends coincide and can point in any direction (and with the same current orientation, left handed or right handed). A radial field plus a radial field gives you a radial field. Now keep adding solenoids. Yes?
 
Spinnor said:
Two such solenoids whose ends coincide and can point in any direction (and with the same current orientation, left handed or right handed). A radial field plus a radial field gives you a radial field. Now keep adding solenoids. Yes?
This looks like it is basically headed in the direction of a magnetic monopole. See this previous thread that discusses the structure that a magnetic monopole would have: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...o-vector-potential.950053/page-2#post-6017074
 
So I am wrong. If we had a countable number of solenoids emanating from the origin then there would be just as many field lines going in as going out, no monopole field. Back to the drawing board.
 

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