Back EMF in Solenoid: Explaining Current Flow

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of back EMF in an ideal solenoid connected to an AC supply, particularly focusing on how current can flow despite the back EMF opposing the source voltage. Participants explore the implications of back EMF in comparison to other electrical components like resistors and DC motors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that in an ideal solenoid, the back EMF will cancel the source voltage, raising the question of how current can flow under these conditions.
  • Another participant explains that back EMF is proportional to di/dt, suggesting that current will rise until the back EMF opposes the applied voltage, similar to how voltage across a resistor increases with current.
  • A participant compares the back EMF in a solenoid to that in a DC motor, noting that when the motor's back EMF equals the source voltage, no current flows, questioning how this differs for a solenoid.
  • Concerns are raised about the balance of the solenoid circuit's equation, with a participant questioning how current can continue to increase when back EMF equals the source voltage, suggesting a misunderstanding of the relationship between voltage, back EMF, and reactance.
  • Another participant clarifies that in a lossless inductor, if the applied voltage is constant, di/dt remains constant, leading to a continuous increase in current.
  • Discussion includes the assertion that for sinusoidal AC in steady state, the back EMF corresponds to the current multiplied by reactance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of current in relation to back EMF, with some agreeing on the principles of di/dt while others remain uncertain about the implications for current flow in solenoids versus other components. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential misunderstandings regarding the relationship between back EMF, source voltage, and current flow, particularly in the context of ideal versus practical components. There are unresolved questions about the balance of circuit equations and the implications of constant applied voltage.

QwertyXP
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Consider an ideal solenoid (no resistance, no leakage reactance etc.) connected across an AC supply. The back EMF induced in it will be exactly equal and in opposite direction to the source voltage (which means that when a certain terminal of the AC supply is positive, the side of solenoid connected with it would also be positive, and vice versa).

My question is, how will current flow at all when the EMFs of AC source and solenoid are cancelling each other out? It's like having having a circuit with only two batteries and terminals of similar polarities shorted with each other.

I've read quite a few explanations on the internet but have yet to fully understand what's happening here.
 
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The back emf is proportional to di/dt, so if no current flowed there would be no back emf. Current will rise to the value where di/dt is such that back emf exactly opposes applied voltage.

This is not much different from current in a resistance. The voltage across a resistance increases as the current increases (obeying Ohms Law) until the voltage across the resistance exactly opposes the applied voltage.
 
i didn't really get this. I was comparing ''back EMF'' of a solenoid with the emf induced across a DC motor's armature. When the motor's back EMF = source voltage, no current flows. So it's like connecting a battery with opposite polarity.

Considering a resistor directly connected across a source, once the voltage across it is equal to source, the current through it does not increase because for that there would have to be a difference in potential. However, if you connect a solenoid across a DC source, the current through it continues to increase for a certain time even though source voltage = back EMF. With no difference in potential, how is this possible?

Also, the solenoid circuits's equation doesn't appear to be balanced:
V(source)=Back EMF (which is equal to source) + CurrentxReactance
when back EMF = source, the CurrentxReactance part should be zero!?
 
Last edited:
QwertyXP said:
i didn't really get this. I was comparing ''back EMF'' of a solenoid with the emf induced across a DC motor's armature. When the motor's back EMF = source voltage, no current flows. So it's like connecting a battery with opposite polarity.
In an "ideal lossless" motor, yes. In a practical motor, there is armature resistance, so that drop has to be accounted for.

Considering a resistor directly connected across a source, once the voltage across it is equal to source, the current through it does not increase because for that there would have to be a difference in potential. However, if you connect a solenoid across a DC source, the current through it continues to increase for a certain time even though source voltage = back EMF. With no difference in potential, how is this possible?
v=L.di/dt so if the applied voltage is maintained constant, di/dt will be constant, meaning current continues to ramp up forever (in a lossless inductor).

Also, the solenoid circuits's equation doesn't appear to be balanced:
V(source)=Back EMF (which is equal to source) + CurrentxReactance

when back EMF = source, the CurrentxReactance part should be zero!?
For sinusoidal AC, in the steady state, the back emf is the current x reactance term.
 

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