Ball in Cone Issue: Solving for Angle X

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving for the angle X in a geometric problem involving a ball in a cone, specifically in the context of determining the angle for manufacturing purposes. Participants explore various methods for calculating this angle using both hand calculations and trigonometric relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the problem and provides known dimensions, seeking a hand calculation method for angle X, estimating it to be approximately 22 degrees.
  • Another participant proposes using two equations involving tangent functions to express angle X in terms of the cone height h.
  • A subsequent reply challenges the initial approach, suggesting the use of sine instead of tangent and providing a derived formula for h based on sine.
  • Another participant acknowledges the need to use the correct radius for calculations, emphasizing the importance of the angled radius relative to the cone's slant.
  • A different method is introduced, labeling points in the geometric configuration and using trigonometric functions and the Pythagorean theorem to derive angle X, resulting in an approximate value of 22.027 degrees.
  • Finally, a simplified calculation method is suggested, involving the computation of two values A and B, leading to an expression for angle X that incorporates both arctangent and arcsine functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing methods for calculating angle X, with no consensus on a single approach. Various interpretations of the geometric relationships and trigonometric functions lead to differing calculations and results.

Contextual Notes

Some methods rely on specific assumptions about the geometry of the cone and the positioning of the ball, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also highlights the potential for different interpretations of the problem setup.

MechEgr
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Guys,

I have a problem I'm trying to solve for work (we're trying to inspect a hole, and I'm trying to determine its angle using a gage pin and a ball bearing).

An image of the problem is attached. The known dimensions which we can measure are shown in black, and I am trying to solve for the angle, X. I can get a value for X by plugging this into my CAD software, but I need to know how to solve for X using hand calculations so that the machinists can do it during production. The value for X should come out to be approximately 22 degrees. The four known dimensions, as shown, are D, H, T, and R. The part is symmetrical, and the sides of the partial cone are tangent to the circle.
 

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  • Cone angle calc.JPG
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I'll give it a try...

Radius of the ball r=2.375
Cone height h= from the apex of angle X to the top of the ball.

tan(x) = R/(h-(H+T))
tan(x) = 1.5/(h-5)

and

tan(x) = r/(h-r)
tan(x) = 2.375/(h-2.375)

So, two equations in one variable, h

h=9.5

1.5/(9.5-5)=1.5/4.5=0.333...

2.375/(9.5-2.375)=2.375/7.125=0.333...

tan(18.5) is about 0.333
 
Thanks for the reply!
 
bahamagreen said:
tan(x) = r/(h-r)
Why? The point where circle and the tilted surface meet (what your denominator should be) is closer to the apex than the center of the ball (your denominator here).

You need the sine:

sin(x) = r/(h-r)
Solve for h: ##h=r+\frac{r}{\sin(x)}##
Plug this into tan(x) = R/(h-(H+T)):

$$\left(r+\frac{r}{\sin(x)}-(H+T)\right) tan(x) = R$$
Simplify:
$$r+(r-H-T)\sin(x)= R\cos(x)$$

Substitute ##\cos(x)=\sqrt{1-\sin^2(x)}##, square and you get a quadratic equation in sin(x) which you can solve with the usual formula.
 
Yeah, I was using the horizontal r but it is the angled r (at right angle to the cone slant) that is the correct one.
 
I found this method simpler (no quadratic):

Label the point at the center of the circle point O
Label the center of the bottom of the hole point D
Label the "corner" of the hole point E
Label the point where the circle touches the cone point F
Label the point a the (imaginary) apex of the cone point X, such that ∠OXF is ∠X

Connecting points O, D, E, & F gives us quadrilateral, ODEF
We know that the circle (the ball) is 0.25 from the bottom of the hole, so OD = 2.375 + 0.25 = 2.625
We know that DE = 1.5 (given)
We know that FO = 2.375 (given)
We know that ∠ODE = 90°
We know that ∠EFO = 90°

Draw line segment OE
Use trig to find ∠DEO: arctan(OD/DE) ≈ 60.255°
Use Pythagorean theorem to find length of OE ≈ 3.023
Use trig to find ∠OEF: arcsin(OF/OE) ≈ 51.772°
Angle DEF = ∠DEO + ∠OEF ≈ 112.027°

We can now find ∠DEX: 180° - ∠DEF ≈ 67.973°
This gives us ∠X: 90° - ∠DEX ≈ 22.027°
 

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  • Drawing1-Layout1.jpg
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Last edited:
So, to simplify...

Given the values D, R, H, and T, calculate the following 2 values:

[itex]A=H+T-\frac{D}{2}[/itex]

and

[itex]B=\sqrt{A^2 + R^2}[/itex]


Then,

[itex]\angle x=\arctan{\frac{A}{R}}+\arcsin{\frac{D}{2B}}-90[/itex]

or (if you prefer),


[itex]\angle x=\tan ^{-1}{\big(\frac{A}{R}\big)}+\sin ^{-1}{\big(\frac{D}{2B}\big)}-90[/itex]
 
Last edited:

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