How Do You Determine the Basicity of Nitrogen Heterocycles?

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The discussion focuses on determining the basicity of nitrogen heterocycles, specifically comparing piperidine, pyridine, pyrrolidone, and diphenylamine. It is established that piperidine is the strongest base due to its aliphatic amine structure, while diphenylamine's two acidic phenyl rings reduce its basicity. The sp2 hybridization of nitrogen in pyridine makes it weakly basic, and amides are noted to be less basic than amines. The participants clarify that pyrrole was mistakenly referenced, emphasizing the importance of recognizing structural differences in basicity. Overall, the consensus is that piperidine is the most basic among the compounds discussed.
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Homework Statement


Select the correct order of basicity of the following compounds:
IMG_20180630_184900.JPG

The Attempt at a Solution


Obviously, (i) is more basic than (iv) because of the 2 acidic phenyl rings in (iv). Also, I know that amides are much less basic than amines. So, that leaves me with either (B) or (C). Further, due to the sp2 hybrid N atom in pyrrole, it is weakly basic.
But how do I decide it's basicity relative to the rest?
Also, though it's clear from (B) & (C) that (iii) will be less basic than both (i) & (iv), how do I decide that the phenyl rings in (iv) won't decrease the basicity to such an extent that (iii) will get more basic?
 

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Here's a good introduction to amine basicity:
https://www.masterorganicchemistry.com/2017/04/26/5-factors-that-affect-basicity-of-amines/
baldbrain said:
(i) is more basic than (iv) because of the 2 acidic phenyl rings in (iv). Also, I know that amides are much less basic than amines. So, that leaves me with either (B) or (C)
Yes, yes, yes.
baldbrain said:
Further, due to the sp2 hybrid N atom in pyrrole, it is weakly basic.
None of these molecules are pyrrole. There's piperidine (i), pyridine (ii), pyrrolidone (iii), and diphenylamine (iv).
baldbrain said:
Also, though it's clear from (B) & (C) that (iii) will be less basic than both (i) & (iv), how do I decide that the phenyl rings in (iv) won't decrease the basicity to such an extent that (iii) will get more basic?
The carbonyl group is a really good pi acceptor (and also a half-decent proton acceptor), so in general amides really really don't want to be protonated.
 
TeethWhitener said:
None of these molecules are pyrrole.
Sorry! Confused pyridine for pyrrole.
 
Ok, so from the link, the answer would be (C)
 
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baldbrain said:
Ok, so from the link, the answer would be (C)
Yes, the big giveaway (or shortcut, now that I'm looking closely at the possible answers) is that piperidine (the aliphatic amine) will be a much stronger base than the rest of them.
 
TeethWhitener said:
Yes, the big giveaway (or shortcut, now that I'm looking closely at the possible answers) is that piperidine (the aliphatic amine) will be a much stronger base than the rest of them.
Right:wink:
 
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