Beables in or NOT in Spacetime?

[Varon]

How do you understand Beables? How do you define Beables? Are these supposed to be located in spacetime or behind spacetime? m_wan wrote in the QM forum:

"When CI denies an objective reality of particle or property X in space-time this is almost certainly the case even if you take a hard look at realism. If you say beable(i) is objectively real then it follows that beable(i) does not have a self-referential position in space-time or a property we associate with space-time (or an empirical measure). The reason is simple, because if beable(i) objectively exist then it cannot be in a space and time which it must dynamically generate before such notions of relative position, momentum, or any other property or thing in this space and time can even have meaning. As DrChinese has argued on his website, if beable(i) is an independent variable then it by definition is not a measurable variable. Like trying to measure something that by definition does not interact with the Universe.

So in my opinion my point is for the realist out there is, so long as the admonitions of the likes of Bohr are ignored, and the beables are treated as objectively real in space-time itself, there will never be any valid theory of objective beables..."

Do you agree with this? Why and why not?

I think understanding beables and its connection to spacetime is key to solving the secret of quantum gravity or quantum spacetime in general.

 

[Demystifier]

I disagree. If something is objective, it doesn't mean it's independent.

 

[my_wan]

Note the qualifier used: self-referential position. I spent a lot of time in the thread that was taken from qualifying the differences in possible ontological statuses that can be associated with what can be termed "real". In the more general case it is in fact true that "objective" does not automatically entail "independence". In some cases it could even require a lack of "independence".

 

[Varon]

I herard quantum gravity doesn't necessary have to involve beables. So I guess the following is the case.

Copenhagen version of quantum gravity involve having spin 2 particle that obeys quantum mechanics mediate the gravitational field

Bohmian version of quantum gravity involves beables or how exactly matter is glue to spacetime.

In Quantum Mechanics. Copenhagen makes more sense. But in Quantum Gravity. Shouldn't Beables make more sense because you are dealing with SpaceTime now that is more objective than Hilbert Space in QM?

This means Bohmiam Mechanics should be a Bohmian version of quantum gravity.