Bel is unit for what physical quantity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the bel as a unit of measurement, particularly in relation to sound intensity and its applications in various fields. Participants explore the definitions, uses, and relationships of the bel and its derivative, the decibel, in contexts such as acoustics and control theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants identify the bel as a unit of sound intensity, noting that it is often expressed in the smaller unit of decibels.
  • Others argue that the decibel is primarily used to express relative logarithmic relationships, particularly in sound and RF/microwave engineering.
  • A participant mentions that the bel and decibel are related to sound pressure and standardized reference levels, which vary by medium and application.
  • There is a discussion about the difference between gain and sound intensity, with some participants noting that both can be expressed in decibels but represent different concepts.
  • One participant provides a mathematical relationship for intensity in decibels, indicating that it involves squaring the field value.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the bel is related to sound intensity and that the decibel is a more commonly used unit. However, there are competing views regarding the conceptual differences between gain and sound intensity, as well as the specific applications of these units in various fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference different standardized levels for sound pressure and intensity, indicating that these may depend on the medium and context of measurement. There is also mention of unresolved distinctions between gain and sound intensity in terms of their conceptual frameworks.

Jhenrique
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If Newton is unit for measure force, meter is unit for measure length and radian is unit for measure angle, so, bel is unit for measure which physical(/mathematical) quantity?
 
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The belt is a unit of sound intensity. It is a large unit so we more often use the decibel.
 
It is not a unit as such. The deci-bel s just used to express relative logarithmic relationships (in base 10, hence deci).
The most common example is sound, (where it tells you the sound pressure relative to a standardized pressure, which if I remember correctly is something like 1 micropascal) but is also used for things like RF/microwave engineering or indeed any other field where we work with relative quantities that differ by orders of magnitude. One can for example talk about 10 dB attentuation of sound (or microwaves).

There are also some commonly used "proper" units which are "related" the the decibel: a good example is dBm which stands for decibel relative to 1 mW. This is used to express power in RF/microwave engineering.
 
f95toli said:
The most common example is sound, (where it tells you the sound pressure relative to a standardized pressure, which if I remember correctly is something like 1 micropascal)

The "standard" reference levels in acoustics are different for sounds in air and in other media, and also different for sound pressure level, sound intensity level, and sound power level :cry:

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel#Suffixes_and_reference_values for even more standard levels for other applications
 
The bel (B) and the smaller decibel (dB) are units of measurement of sound intensity invented by Bell Labs and named after Alexander Graham Bell.
You can find more references in the Wikipedia article on him. This sounds like a homework question to me.
 
I never need to use dB or B for anything, but now, in Control Theory, the argument of the transfer function is the phase shift and the absolute is the gain and the gain is measured in dB. Gain and sound intensity are different concepts, I think, but they have the same unit, dB. Which is the difference and iguality concepctual between gain and sound intensity?
 
"Gain" is the ratio between output and input (or between final and initlal) values of some quantity. The decibel is a way of describing that gain in logarithmic terms: # of decibels = 10 * log (final/initial). As f95stoli wrote, it's commonly used for sound intensity (with the "initial" value being some standard value chosen by convention), but it's also used for things like the ratio between output and input power in an electrical circuit, or the sensitivity of an antenna, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
 
Jhenrique said:
I never need to use dB or B for anything, but now, in Control Theory, the argument of the transfer function is the phase shift and the absolute is the gain and the gain is measured in dB. Gain and sound intensity are different concepts, I think, but they have the same unit, dB. Which is the difference and iguality concepctual between gain and sound intensity?

For intensity the value of the field is squared -
so you get I = 10*Log10[ A^2/B^2] = 20*Log10[A/B]. This is in deciBels.
 

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