Is there any physical quantity having two different units?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of a physical quantity having two different units or formulas under varying conditions. Participants explore examples from physics, including energy, torque, and wave functions, while questioning the implications of differing units and dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that quantities like velocity can be expressed in different units, such as meters per second.
  • Others propose that a physical quantity could have different formulas and units depending on the conditions, citing examples like Maxwell's equations.
  • It is noted that distance can be measured in various units, such as meters or feet.
  • Some participants mention that energy can be expressed in different units, such as Joules and electron Volts, depending on the context.
  • Torque is discussed as having the same units as energy (N m = J) but being conceptually different due to the nature of the quantities involved.
  • A participant raises the question of whether a physical quantity could have units like kg m²/s² and kg m³/s⁵ under different conditions, leading to further exploration of definitions and dimensional analysis.
  • Wave functions in quantum mechanics are presented as an example of a quantity that depends on the dimensionality of the problem, with different dimensional units in one, two, and three dimensions.
  • Some argue that if quantities have different units and formulas, they may not be considered the same physical quantity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether quantities with different units and formulas can be considered the same. There is no consensus on the implications of having different units for the same physical quantity, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight that the definitions and interpretations of quantities can vary based on context, leading to ambiguity in the discussion of units and dimensions.

Aaditya Jain
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Is there any physical quantity having two different units or can it be possible that a physical quantity have two different units?
 
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Hi Aaditya,
Not quite sure what you are asking?
Velocity uses two units, such as meter / sec - a length unit and a time unit.
 
Good to hear from you. I am saying can a quantity have two different formula's having different units, if it acts under different conditions?
 
A quantity such as distance can have units of meters or units of feet.
 
The base units have to be the same but there are plenty of examples where different disciplines use different units. One well known example would be the use of Joules (J) and electron Volts (eV) for energy of particles. eV is very convenient because the charge on every electron is the same so the accelerating Voltage is a very handy measure to use. We also describe many EM waves in terms of wavelength and frequency - depending on convenience.
The list goes on.
 
Aaditya Jain said:
Is there any physical quantity having two different units or can it be possible that a physical quantity have two different units?

In the geometrised units of GR, time and mass can be measured in units of length. The mass of the Sun, for example, is about ##3km##.
 
There‘s the case of torque, which is measured in N m (Newton meters). Formally equivalent to energy (1 N m = 1 J), but you have to integrate torque against angular displacement to calculate work. I had always found this curious in high school.
 
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Aaditya Jain said:
I am saying can a quantity have two different formula's having different units
Maxwell’s equations have both different units and different formulas in SI units and in CGS units.
 
Aaditya Jain said:
Good to hear from you. I am saying can a quantity have two different formula's having different units, if it acts under different conditions?

This still doesn't explain anything.

The electric field strength can be written in units of V/m or N/C. Are these "different" enough for you?

Zz.
 
  • #10
I mean to says different unit in dimension. Means, can it be possible that unit of a physical quantity equals to kgm2/s2 and kgm3s5, if it acts under different conditions.
 
  • #11
256bits said:
Hi Aaditya,
Not quite sure what you are asking?
Velocity uses two units, such as meter / sec - a length unit and a time unit.
I mean to says different units in dimension. Means, can it be possible that a physical quantity has unit equals to kgm2/s2 and kgm3s5, if it acts under different conditions.
 
  • #12
Yes. For example in quantum mechanics wave function ##\psi(\vec{r},t)## depends on dimension of problem. In one dimensional system it is ##L^{-1/2}##, in two dimensional is ##L^{-1}## and in three dimensional is ##L^{-3/2}##, where ##L## is lenght.
 
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  • #13
Aaditya Jain said:
I mean to says different units in dimension. Means, can it be possible that a physical quantity has unit equals to kgm2/s2 and kgm3s5, if it acts under different conditions.
Well it won't be the same physical quantity proper if the units are different.

But as @LagrangeEuler has replied, we can state something similar depending.
As an example,
Force acting at a point would be in Newtons.
An extended force could be expressed as Nt/m, such as that acting over a certain length of beam.
Or as Nt/m2 if the force is extended over a surface area.
These are called distributed forces.
 
  • #14
suremarc said:
There‘s the case of torque, which is measured in N m (Newton meters). Formally equivalent to energy (1 N m = 1 J), but you have to integrate torque against angular displacement to calculate work. I had always found this curious in high school.
I think that's a good example of two different physical quantities having the same units ( as distinct from two different units applying to the same physical quantity )
The difference between our definitions of torque and energy is that in the former case the relevant component force and distance are at 90 degrees to each other and in the latter case they are in the same direction.
 
  • #15
If they had different formulas, different units and apply to different conditions, by what logic would you even call them "the same quantity"?
 
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  • #16
Dadface said:
The difference between our definitions of torque and energy is that in the former case the relevant component force and distance are at 90 degrees to each other and in the latter case they are in the same direction.
For the maximum values, what you say about the outcome of the definitions is true; but that's not even relevant.
 
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  • #17
Mister T said:
For the maximum values, what you say about the outcome of the definitions is true; but that's not even relevant.
Sorry I don't understand your comment. Energy and Torque are completely different quantities which can both be expressed in the same units. But why "for the maximum values"?
 
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  • #18
Dadface said:
But why "for the maximum values"?
These are the conditions under which you get the maximum values:

Dadface said:
The difference between our definitions of torque and energy is that in the former case the relevant component force and distance are at 90 degrees to each other and in the latter case they are in the same direction.
 
  • #19
Vitamin D is measured in functional units. If you immerse a half naked human in sunlight for a half hour, that human's skin will produce 20,000 units of cholecalciferol (nubile viamin D).
One mg of Vitamin D also equals 40,000 units. A tiny bit goes a long way.
The unit is a functional element while a milligram is your Newtonian classical mass.
 
  • #20
Dadface said:
The difference between our definitions of torque and energy is that in the former case the relevant component force and distance are at 90 degrees to each other and in the latter case they are in the same direction.
Mister T said:
These are the conditions under which you get the maximum values:
I'm still not sure what you mean by this. Whether the values be maximum or not the difference I described still holds. Also, I did not describe situations where you get maximum values, I referred to relevant "component" quantities which, depending on the relevant angles, can give values anywhere between the maximum possible and zero. I will try to describe the difference but very informally:

In the definition of work the distance referred to is the distance moved.
In the definition of torque the distance referred to is the distance between two points on whatever it is that the torque is applied to.
 

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