Betrayal by trust: what did you learn

[Psinter]

Have you ever been betrayed by the person you trusted the most? I was. What I learned from it is that it hurts very deeply. I realized people can attempt to hurt me, but it never works because I don't give a sham about them, but when someone you trust stabs you, it really hurts. It really destroys you. It wasn't love in case you are wondering, it was just friendship, a friend I thought I could completely trust, but I was wrong.

How's this for numbers: She was the 1 person I fully trusted, and she was the 1 person to betray me. The 1 person I was loyal to, and the 1 person who didn't care about it. Loyal in the sense that I wouldn't have ever sold that friendship for anything in the world. I'm somewhat fine in case you are wondering.

EDIT: I say it was a friendship, but now that I carefully analyze it, I suppose I was the only one who thought we were friends. Fool of a me, but it's okay now. I ain't falling for it again... I hope.

But I'm curious, has anyone here been betrayed by someone they trusted? What did you learn, if anything, from it?

 

[gjonesy]

But I'm curious, has anyone here been betrayed by someone they trusted?

I'm guessing that number is pretty high, myself included of course.

What did you learn, if anything, from it?

Well it took a betrayal of a few close friends to open my eyes. Then 2 years later I was betrayed in the worsted way possible.

I learned humanity is very fickle, and giving some one your full trust is the biggest gamble and individual can make, odds are you will loose every time.

I won't be making that mistake again mate, bank on that.

 

[jackwhirl]

I'm sorry to hear you experienced this.
Thinking over my own (short) life, nothing of the sort comes to mind.
I consider my friends to be of the highest quality, but they are few.

 

[Psinter]

I learned humanity is very fickle, and giving some one your full trust is the biggest gamble and individual can make, odds are you will loose every time.

I won't be making that mistake again mate, bank on that.

Thanks for sharing that lesson. I wasn't aware of it this way: like a gamble. But you are right.

I'm sorry to hear you experienced this.
Thinking over my own (short) life, nothing of the sort comes to mind.
I consider my friends to be of the highest quality, but they are few.

Let's hope it never happens.

 

[einswine]

Like most I too have been devastated by betrayal at a deep level. What I learned .. over time (years): Without trust love is not possible. To have a chance of trusting wisely it takes a fair degree of that most difficult and painful of practices, learning to be self aware and objectively self critical. One must know one's self to know others. This takes time and experience, being wounded and healing from wounds. My second marriage is over 40 years long and built entirely on trust and I would not trade that for all the wealth in the world.

To refuse to trust is to refuse to love and to become a shriveled thing of a human.

If you need practice trusting, get a dog. They can be outstanding therapists.

 

[gjonesy]

Thanks for sharing that lesson. I wasn't aware of it this way: like a gamble. But you are right.

You are welcome, it was a hard learned lesson.

The way I conduct myself now is as follows, once I issue someone trust, its basic level (I will trust them with inconsequential things only) once they are proven trustworthy I will give them (intermediate level trust) which is to trust them with details of my life that could be mildly consequential. If its violated even once in any way I revoke my trust of that person indefinitely. I have yet to find anyone that I would trust at a higher level (say with an intimate detail or secret) You live you learn then you grow.

 

[gjonesy]

To refuse to trust is to refuse to love and to become a shriveled thing of a human.

To be totally distrustful maybe, to be guarded and cautious is prudent. IMO

 

[Psinter]

Like most I too have been devastated by betrayal at a deep level. What I learned .. over time (years): Without trust love is not possible. To have a chance of trusting wisely it takes a fair degree of that most difficult and painful of practices, learning to be self aware and objectively self critical. One must know one's self to know others. This takes time and experience, being wounded and healing from wounds. My second marriage is over 40 years long and built entirely on trust and I would not trade that for all the wealth in the world.

To refuse to trust is to refuse to love and to become a shriveled thing of a human.

If you need practice trusting, get a dog. They can be outstanding therapists.

Thanks for sharing that lesson too. I am learning from you all . I knew asking would be great.

 

[einswine]

>>> to be guarded and cautious is prudent. IMO

Yes. There are many contexts in which trust is an element. And in many of those contexts prudence is wise.

Related observations.

It seems to me it takes ten to twelve years to get to know someone well. And let's face it, it takes much more time and many experiences to get to know ourselves well. Trust in something or some one naturally increases with positive experiences over time.

Part of trusting wisely is not trusting where one is not confident one could survive a betrayal. Part is learning one can survive betrayals. Analogous to loving dogs I guess. You know they are going to break your heart when they die, still you trust your heart to them gladly, joyfully, completely.

All written in the understanding that these opinions are likely to be self serving at some level. It appears virtually everyone sees the world through needful eyes. It would be hubris to think I was exempt.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Analogous to loving dogs I guess. You know they are going to break your heart when they die

They are?! Even Mr Scruffles?

 

[Tsu]

Without trust there is no respect. Without respect there is no love.

 

[Psinter]

To refuse to trust is to refuse to love and to become a shriveled thing of a human.

That's exactly the path I was going to take before posting here. You totally predicted it. Can you like read my mind or something? I suppose I can work trust somehow as time goes by. Got to find the trick I suppose.

You are welcome, it was a hard learned lesson.

The way I conduct myself now is as follows, once I issue someone trust, its basic level (I will trust them with inconsequential things only) once they are proven trustworthy I will give them (intermediate level trust) which is to trust them with details of my life that could be mildly consequential. If its violated even once in any way I revoke my trust of that person indefinitely. I have yet to find anyone that I would trust at a higher level (say with an intimate detail or secret) You live you learn then you grow.

Oh, I see where I failed now that I read this. I gave her full details of my life out of the box. I know, you all are going to say that was stupid, but never would I have expected it to turn this way. So now I see.

(I put emphasis to not forget the error.)

 

[DiracPool]

Oh, I see where I failed now that I read this. I gave her full details of my life out of the box. I know, you all are going to say that was stupid, but never would I have expected it to turn this way. So now I see.

I thought we got rid of the "Relationships" section for a reason..

Naw, just kidding. I know what you mean about trust. I had this girlfriend about a decade ago and she seemed the perfect girl. We were the quintessential 30-something metro-sexual hip Seattle couple you could write into a TV script. She looked like a young, hepatitus C-free Pamela Anderson and I was a local rock star just starting (but not yet) to look fat and bloated like Jim Morrison. So it was good times.

Here's the lesson, though, I made the mistake that, thinking we were so in love and compatible, that I could divulge to her my deepest, darkest secrets, fears, and insecurities, and, because we were a "team," we would work through these together and rid ourselves of our demons and build a real and lasting union.

Well, it was not to be. She put up a good game, but at the end of the day she didn't want to build anything other than her fairy tale conception of what she thought her life should be. She didn't give a rat's ass about working as a metro-sexual team as one would think of Bill and Hilary Clinton or the couple from the sitcom, "Mad about you."

So there's a lesson if you can find one in there...

 

[DiracPool]

My second marriage is over 40 years long and built entirely on trust and I would not trade that for all the wealth in the world.

Nice try "einswine," but pigs don't live more than 20 years, so I'm not buying your "happily ever after" story, sorry...

http://animals.mom.me/average-long-pigs-live-6144.html

 

[Psinter]

I thought we got rid of the "Relationships" section for a reason..

Naw, just kidding. I know what you mean about trust. I had this girlfriend about a decade ago and she seemed the perfect girl. We were the quintessential 30-something metro-sexual hip Seattle couple you could write into a TV script. She looked like a young, hepatitus C-free Pamela Anderson and I was a local rock star just starting (but not yet) to look fat and bloated like Jim Morrison. So it was good times.

Here's the lesson, though, I made the mistake that, thinking we were so in love and compatible, that I could divulge to her my deepest, darkest secrets, fears, and insecurities, and, because we were a "team," we would work through these together and rid ourselves of our demons and build a real and lasting union.

Well, it was not to be. She put up a good game, but at the end of the day she didn't want to build anything other than her fairy tale conception of what she thought her life should be. She didn't give a rat's ass about working as a metro-sexual team as one would think of Bill and Hilary Clinton or the couple from the sitcom, "Mad about you."

So there's a lesson if you can find one in there...

I do find a lesson. And now that you mention it I didn't even notice there is no more relationships section. Odd, I wonder what happened.

The lesson I find is that she used you just like the human who used me. But I must repeat that my case wasn't love. It was friendship (or so I thought).

I'll add that to my notebook: Careful Psinter with people who are just using you. They are very dangerous on the Psinter Trust Scale (the one I'm building now).

 

[DiracPool]

The lesson I find is that she used you just like the human who used me.

I think you got the wrong message. This wasn't about her using me, it was about different worldviews. What I realized after the fact is that we each had two different perspectives of what our relationship was about. When we met, I was in a good place in my life, I was running a successful marketing business and I was in a band that had a steady Wednesday night gig at a popular downtown Seattle nightclub. The band at that time was popular, but I had known this girl, Kelly, for a couple years already. We had seen each other around the local karaoke bars before I got "famous." So, this wasn't some groupie out of the wild that was waxing sycophant. I thought there was something real there. And I think there was; I don't really think that she decided to hook up with me just because I was finally in a popular band, she had always flirted with me, it just never went anywhere.

We just kind of "ended up" one night after a gig of mine together at this popular all night breakfast bar way on the east side of town. It was magical. I remember driving her back to my metro-sexual flat in the coolest high-rise in Seattle in my red PT-cruiser, which wasn't really mine, it was a demo model for a marketing promotion I was doing. So, maybe foolishly, I thought all this was serendipitous. But serendipitous or not, it seemed real and magical to me.

Was this a scam job the whole way through? Was I duped? I hope not and I think not. So that's perhaps the lesson I'm trying to convey, the story is not always about duplicitous or mercenary characters, sometimes it's just about conflicting worldviews.

 

[Psinter]

I think you got the wrong message. This wasn't about her using me, it was about different worldviews. What I realized after the fact is that we each had two different perspectives of what our relationship was about. When we met, I was in a good place in my life, I was running a successful marketing business and I was in a band that had a steady Wednesday night gig at a popular downtown Seattle nightclub. The band at that time was popular, but I had known this girl, Kelly, for a couple years already. We had seen each other around the local karaoke bars before I got "famous." So, this wasn't some groupie out of the wild that was waxing sycophant. I thought there was something real there. And I think there was; I don't really think that she decided to hook up with me just because I was finally in a popular band, she had always flirted with me, it just never went anywhere.

We just kind of "ended up" one night after a gig of mine together at this popular all night breakfast bar way on the east side of town. It was magical. I remember driving her back to my metro-sexual flat in the coolest high-rise in Seattle in my red PT-cruiser, which wasn't really mine, it was a demo model for a marketing promotion I was doing. So, maybe foolishly, I thought all this was serendipitous. But serendipitous or not, it seemed real and magical to me.

Was this a scam job the whole way through? Was I duped? I hope not and I think not. So that's perhaps the lesson I'm trying to convey, the story is not always about duplicitous or mercenary characters, sometimes it's just about conflicting worldviews.

Sorry there. I perceived it was all a plot of her to satisfy her view of the world. Sorry again there.

But mine was a mercenary, that much I can assure. 10 years older than me, she used her social knowledge and contacts to fool me. It wasn't until I gave her everything she asked for that she stabbed me. I would admire her mercenary skills, but her betrayal leaves me sober.

Different worldviews is another factor then. I'm taking notes even thought that wasn't my case.

 

[DiracPool]

But mine was a mercenary, that much I can assure. 10 years older than me, she used her social knowledge and contacts to fool me. It wasn't until I gave her everything she asked for that she stabbed me

Sounds more like a "black widow" saga... My advice is to just chalk it up to experience, (try) to forget about it, and move on...

 

[Psinter]

Sounds more like a "black widow" saga...

Haha! Is that a series related to betrayals?

 

[Sophia]

I had a similar experience this summer with my friend.
We have known each other since 5th grade and we were close. When we were kids we had similar temperaments but as we got over, she got more outgoing and sanguinc /choleric while I changed to be more phlegmatic with anxiety which was caused both by genetics and external reasons.
We only saw each other once a week or so because both of us went to other towns but we still had a lot in common, sharing our secrets together, going for walks, swimming when we got a chance. When she was with me, she was really very OK and calm, but she talked about the hysterical scenes that she made to her boyfriends and she laughed how she humiliated them. I found it strange and often times I was on the boys side, but I thought it was something she would only do to a boy.
But only after I think about it in retrospective, I've learned very fast to not speak about my different opinions with her. I was always submissive to her. But I still considered her to be a good friend, and she was definitely the only friend I had in this area.
This summer we spent a holiday together and our opposite temperaments fully showed up. I will not say whose fault it was because I made mistakes too.
I was really anxious in a new environment with a few panic attacks which she didn't understand and accused me of being boring and weird. There was also another person who likes humiliating others so they played a few jokes on me, trying to put me down and to "see how I will react". The were things such as trying to forcefully unbottom my shirt in the pub (they only had one beer). Than when I was having a shower they hid the shirt and I never found it again. They did it because the shirt was too modest and they wanted me to show my decolt. They also took my phone and tried to put a picture of penis on my fb. And similar things all the time. They behaved like 13 yo bullies.
I couldn't wait to get home. After the return I received a long mail from this girl where she wrote about all my negative characteristics and how I disappointed her etc.

I learned that even if someone appears to behave kindly to you, but you see them being cruel to others, as my friend talked about hurting her boyfriend, be sure they will behave the same way to you one day.

 

[DiracPool]

I learned that even if someone appears to behave kindly to you, but you see them being cruel to others, as my friend talked about hurting her boyfriend, be sure they will behave the same way to you one day.

Thank you for that story, Sophia, I admire your candidness. Your quote I posted I am very familiar with, because this is my dad. He always talks sh#$ about everyone else in the universe with a wink to me like we are in the elite crowd and everyone else sucks, but I can assure you he behaves with everyone else the exact same way, and talks down about me equally to them about me. I think that's reprehensible behavior.

 

[einswine]

Nice try "einswine," but pigs don't live more than 20 years, so I'm not buying your "happily ever after" story, sorry...

http://animals.mom.me/average-long-pigs-live-6144.html

Actually the average life span is about 7 months,.

 

[gjonesy]

I made the mistake that, thinking we were so in love and compatible, that I could divulge to her my deepest, darkest secrets, fears, and insecurities

That's the mistake I made, I trusted to much, (a friend) with secrets that in (high insight) I should have kept to myself, and that friend used that information to try and gain and advantageous position. Then infiltrated my marriage and caused irreparable damage there, sewed the seeds of suspicion and manipulated my now ex-wife into believing a half truth. All this to get my boss laid and get me fired so she could get a promotion. Well she forgot one thing,(who she was dealing with) I became suspicious about a week after things started (over a three month period) and by the time they tried to spring the trap so to speak, I had enough evidence to have them both put under investigation and fired. But by then the damage was done, my marriage was wrecked to the point of no return and everything fell to pieces. Two year later that damages surface again, wife fell in love with some guy from work and low and behold she blamed it all on this past situation. We split,...the up side is... I now have a story that could be a best selling novel or made for TV movie, I wonder if we could get Tom Hanks, to play me?

 

[gjonesy]

but she talked about the hysterical scenes that she made to her boyfriends and she laughed how she humiliated them.

Text book narcissism, Your friend, my ex-wife ,my ex-unemployed boss and ex-unemployed transportation officer/best friend and ex-unemployed shift Cpt would all get along great. They all had that same I'm better then everyone else attitude.

 

[DiracPool]

I became suspicious about a week after things started (over a three month period) and by the time they tried to spring the trap so to speak, I had enough evidence to have them both put under investigation and fired. But by then the damage was done, my marriage was wrecked to the point of no return and everything fell to pieces. Two year later that damages surface again, wife fell in love with some guy from work and low and behold she blamed it all on this past situation

Well, that's the toughest part, knowing when to let go. I don't have kids myself, so I guess this might complicate my sentiment here, but if you don't have kids, you're best bet is to run for the hills from this person. I know this is hard to contemplate, but the way I see it, that's your best option.

 

[gjonesy]

Well, that's the toughest part, knowing when to let go. I don't have kids myself, but I guess this can complicate my sentiment here, but if you don't have kids, you're best bet is to run for the hills from this person. I know this is hard to contemplate, but the way I see it, that's your best option.

Oh I am not with any of them in any way or form, After the investigation I started (with the top level of my government agency) all the evidence was gathered. They had to sit down and present their defense. what they didn't realize is I had already came forward, I admitted my wrong doing well in advance and it was basically a minor rule infraction. But I already had some disciplinary actions on me so it could have been a demotion. Well what they didn't know is as they were presenting their side, there was a microphone on the table in front of the investigators they were running voice stress analysis on everyone, I passed, my wife passed, My boss, my Cptn. and my TO all failed. And were terminated from active employment. The marriage completely failed 2 years later. I now have nothing to do with any of them except for the ex-wife and only when we need to co-operate for the remaining children. I'm happy , she is "content" whatever that means..lol The others I have no idea what happened or ever became of them after they were fired, I transferred a hundred miles away from all of them.

 

[gjonesy]

When you trust someone with information of a sensitive nature that can be greatly consequential to you personally if reveled to others , what you are doing in essence is handing them complete control and power over you. The only living person I trust that much now is myself.

 

[gjonesy]

BTW, seriously if I were to write this story in its entirety It would be a best seller. It would make 50 shades of gray look like a Dr Seuss book. Yes its that sorted.

 

[DennisN]

I learned that even if someone appears to behave kindly to you, but you see them being cruel to others, as my friend talked about hurting her boyfriend, be sure they will behave the same way to you one day.

When I started reading this thread, I was going to post something very similar to what you said, Sophia, e.g.

 

[Sophia]

Text book narcissism, Your friend, my ex-wife ,my ex-unemployed boss and ex-unemployed transportation officer/best friend and ex-unemployed shift Cpt would all get along great. They all had that same I'm better then everyone else attitude.

I wonder how is it possible that we don't see what's going on from the start. Why do we trust such people?
I don't know.
Maybe we desperately need to believe someone.

 

[gjonesy]

I wonder how is it possible that we don't see what's going on from the start. Why do we trust such people?
I don't know.
Maybe we desperately need to believe someone

I think its just human nature to give anyone we (like) the benefit of the doubt. But in reality there may be people right in front of you (perhaps just an acquaintance) that for trivial reasons "looks, personality , attitude ect" that we just don't really click with but that are completely trustworthy. But for the afore mentioned reasons we do not give them that same benefit of the doubt.

 

[Sophia]

I think its just human nature to give anyone we (like) the benefit of the doubt. But in reality there may be people right in front of you (perhaps just an acquaintance) that for trivial reasons "looks, personality , attitude ect" that we just don't really click with but that are completely trustworthy. But for the afore mentioned reasons we do not give them that same benefit of the doubt.

That's a nice thought.
The funny thing is that it takes such a long time until we really get to know the person. I think it was Lisa who said it was 10-12 years. Sometimes it's shorter or longer , but really, it's quite a long time.
It's a pity that sometimes we spend many years with the wrong person, while not giving a chance to the right ones.
But that's life I guess. We all learn all the time.

 

[Psinter]

I had a similar experience this summer with my friend.
We have known each other since 5th grade and we were close. When we were kids we had similar temperaments but as we got over, she got more outgoing and sanguinc /choleric while I changed to be more phlegmatic with anxiety which was caused both by genetics and external reasons.
We only saw each other once a week or so because both of us went to other towns but we still had a lot in common, sharing our secrets together, going for walks, swimming when we got a chance. When she was with me, she was really very OK and calm, but she talked about the hysterical scenes that she made to her boyfriends and she laughed how she humiliated them. I found it strange and often times I was on the boys side, but I thought it was something she would only do to a boy.
But only after I think about it in retrospective, I've learned very fast to not speak about my different opinions with her. I was always submissive to her. But I still considered her to be a good friend, and she was definitely the only friend I had in this area.
This summer we spent a holiday together and our opposite temperaments fully showed up. I will not say whose fault it was because I made mistakes too.
I was really anxious in a new environment with a few panic attacks which she didn't understand and accused me of being boring and weird. There was also another person who likes humiliating others so they played a few jokes on me, trying to put me down and to "see how I will react". The were things such as trying to forcefully unbottom my shirt in the pub (they only had one beer). Than when I was having a shower they hid the shirt and I never found it again. They did it because the shirt was too modest and they wanted me to show my decolt. They also took my phone and tried to put a picture of penis on my fb. And similar things all the time. They behaved like 13 yo bullies.
I couldn't wait to get home. After the return I received a long mail from this girl where she wrote about all my negative characteristics and how I disappointed her etc.

I learned that even if someone appears to behave kindly to you, but you see them being cruel to others, as my friend talked about hurting her boyfriend, be sure they will behave the same way to you one day.

Wow, your friend is terrible. I'm so sorry it turned out that way. I have no lessons to share with you, I'm as empty as one can get. Although what your friend did truly indignates me. And if it hurts, that's something I can understand and feel too.

I'm taking notes: Not speak so fast of your own opinion with people. Got that. If conditions are appropriate, people will behave with you the same way they behave with other people.

When you trust someone with information of a sensitive nature that can be greatly consequential to you personally if reveled to others , what you are doing in essence is handing them complete control and power over you. The only living person I trust that much now is myself.

Truth has been spoken. It pierces through my chest because it happened to me. I reported my so called 'friend' and accomplices to the respective authorities. The case is being reviewed, but she has a lot of money, and I guess we all know how law treats people with money.

I wonder how is it possible that we don't see what's going on from the start. Why do we trust such people?
I don't know.
Maybe we desperately need to believe someone.

Wow, so much feel in those statements. And so much truth.

 

[gjonesy]

Truth has been spoken. It pierces through my chest because it happened to me. I reported my so called 'friend' and accomplices to the respective authorities. The case is being reviewed, but she has a lot of money, and I guess we all know how law treats people with money.

I hope you get the justice you deserve.

 

[Psinter]

I hope you get the justice you deserve.

Thanks.