Binary operation on equivalence classes

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of a binary operation on equivalence classes defined by an equivalence relation on a set. Participants are examining the implications of the operation and its well-definedness in the context of equivalence classes.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definition of the binary operation on equivalence classes and question whether the operation is well-defined. There is a focus on the implications of rewriting expressions and the use of set notation versus element notation.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the need for clarity regarding well-definedness and the appropriate use of notation. There is an ongoing exploration of the steps taken in the reasoning process, with some participants expressing confusion about certain aspects of the original poster's approach.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential translation issues regarding the problem statement, and participants are considering whether certain assumptions or definitions have been overlooked in the discussion.

PhysicsRock
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Homework Statement
Given a set ##M## and an equivalence relation ##\sim## on ##M##, for ##a,a^{\prime},b,b^{\prime} \in M## with ##a \sim a^{\prime}## and ##b \sim b^{\prime}## with a binary operation ##*## such that ##a * b \sim a^{\prime} * b^{\prime}## prove that a binary operation ##\overline{*}## exists that fulfills ##[x * y] = [x] \overline{*} [y]##.
Relevant Equations
None else.
So, my approach and solution are as follows:

$$

[x * y] = \{ z \in M : z \sim (x * y) \}

$$

Since we know that ##a * b \sim a^{\prime} * b^{\prime}## we can rewrite ##z## as ## x^{\prime} * y^{\prime} ##. Plugging this in yields:

$$

[x * y] = \{ x^{\prime}, y^{\prime} \in M : x^{\prime} * y^{\prime} \sim x * y \}

$$

We are also given that if ##x^{\prime} * y^{\prime} \sim x * y## then ##x^{\prime} \sim x## and ##y^{\prime} \sim y##. So once again, we can rewrite the expression to obtain:

$$
[x * y] = \{ x^{\prime}, y^{\prime} \in M : x^{\prime} \sim x, y^{\prime} \sim y \}
$$

With ##x^{\prime}## and ##y^{\prime}## now essentially separated, we can break apart the set into two individual ones with

$$
[x*y] = \{ x^{\prime} \in M : x^{\prime} \sim x \} \bigcup \{ y^{\prime} \in M : y^{\prime} \sim y \}
$$

Now one observes that the two sets are the equivalence classes for ##x## and ##y## respectively. So, we can conclude that

$$
[x*y] = [x] \cup [y]
$$

and comparing this to the assignment, we obtain that ##\overline{*}## is equivalent to the union of sets. Hence, there exists a binary operation fulfilling the required demands.

Now, am I correct here or did I screw up at some point?
 
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PhysicsRock said:
Homework Statement:: Given a set ##M## and an equivalence relation ##\sim## on ##M##, for ##a,a^{\prime},b,b^{\prime} \in M## with ##a \sim a^{\prime}## and ##b \sim b^{\prime}## with a binary operation ##*## such that ##a * b \sim a^{\prime} * b^{\prime}## prove that a binary operation ##\overline{*}## exists that fulfills ##[x * y] = [x] \overline{*} [y]##.
I wonder whether something has been lost in translation here. I suspect what you are asked to prove is that the binary operation defined by ##[x] \overline{*} [y] = [x * y]## is well-defined. In the sense that it doesn't matter which members of the equivalence classes ##[x]## and ##[y]## you choose, you get the same result.
PhysicsRock said:
$$

[x * y] = \{ z \in M : z \sim (x * y) \}

$$

Since we know that ##a * b \sim a^{\prime} * b^{\prime}## we can rewrite ##z## as ## x^{\prime} * y^{\prime} ##. Plugging this in yields:

$$

[x * y] = \{ x^{\prime}, y^{\prime} \in M : x^{\prime} * y^{\prime} \sim x * y \}

$$
This doesn't look right. Instead:
$$

[x * y] = \{ z: z \sim x * y \}

$$
PhysicsRock said:
$$
[x*y] = \{ x^{\prime} \in M : x^{\prime} \sim x \} \bigcup \{ y^{\prime} \in M : y^{\prime} \sim y \}
$$
I don't understand what you are doing here.
PhysicsRock said:
Now one observes that the two sets are the equivalence classes for ##x## and ##y## respectively. So, we can conclude that

$$
[x*y] = [x] \cup [y]
$$

and comparing this to the assignment, we obtain that ##\overline{*}## is equivalent to the union of sets. Hence, there exists a binary operation fulfilling the required demands.

Now, am I correct here or did I screw up at some point?
I don't follow this either.
 
PeroK said:
I wonder whether something has been lost in translation here. I suspect what you are asked to prove is that the binary operation defined by is well-defined. In the sense that it doesn't matter which members of the equivalence classes and you choose, you get the same result.
Yes, you are right. I quoted the statement from my memory and forgot the well-definedness. In that case, is it still recommendable to make use of set notation or should I retreat to use elements?

If it still makes sense, should I explain why I carried out certain steps you said you didn't understand?
 
PhysicsRock said:
Yes, you are right. I quoted the statement from my memory and forgot the well-definedness. In that case, is it still recommendable to make use of set notation or should I retreat to use elements?

If it still makes sense, should I explain why I carried out certain steps you said you didn't understand?
The result should follow quite quickly from what you are given.
 

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