BJT output voltage as function of input voltage

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the output voltage (Vout) of a BJT common emitter amplifier as a function of the input voltage (Vin). Participants explore the relationship between these voltages, the appropriate model for the BJT, and the implications of phase inversion in the output signal.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests replacing the BJT symbol with the model used in class and solving for Vout, indicating that the task may seem complex but is straightforward.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial approach but notes that the BJT model is overly simplified and may not account for the influence of Vout.
  • A different participant points out that a minus sign is needed in the analysis, implying that an increase in input results in a decrease in output, referencing phase inversion.
  • Several participants question the necessity of the minus sign, with one expressing skepticism about adding it without proof and another clarifying that in their circuit, Vout is measured across the Rc resistor, suggesting that the minus sign may not be applicable.
  • One participant reiterates that the output voltage is taken between the collector and ground in a typical CE amplifier, supporting the view that the minus sign is unnecessary in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the necessity of a minus sign in the output voltage analysis, with some asserting its importance due to phase inversion and others arguing against it based on the specific circuit configuration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding the output voltage reference point and the implications of phase relationships in BJT amplifiers. There are unresolved questions about the appropriateness of the BJT model used and the assumptions underlying the analysis.

gfd43tg
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Homework Statement


The circuit below is a BJT common emitter amplifier. Find Vout as a function of Vin. This may seem hard to parse at first, but it is actually pretty straightforward. Carefully replace the BJT symbol with the model for a BJT we used in class, making sure the base (B), emitter (E), and collector (C) terminals are connected properly, then use any method you want to solve for Vout!


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



My solution doesn't use V0 at all. I am wondering if my connection is correct and if I did this correctly.
 

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Looks ok for me. And your BJT model is too too simplified to be able to take into account the Vo influence.
 
Last edited:
Fine, except needs a minus sign.
 
why the minus sign?
 
Maylis said:
why the minus sign?

Because if the input goes up, the output goes down.
If your input were a sine wave, the output would be a sine wave of opposite phase.
 
where does the minus sign come in for the analysis? I don't just want to tack on a negative to the front of my answer based on a concept with no proof
 
No, you don't need any "minus" sign. In "normal" CE amplifier the output voltage is taken between collector and ground. But in your circuit Vout is the voltage across Rc resistor. So you don't need "minus" sign.
 
Jony130 said:
No, you don't need any "minus" sign. In "normal" CE amplifier the output voltage is taken between collector and ground. But in your circuit Vout is the voltage across Rc resistor. So you don't need "minus" sign.

That is correct. Why anyone would want to take the output that way I don't understand, but you are correct.
 

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