Black Hole Observations: What Changed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around recent advancements in black hole observations, particularly the implications of images and data obtained from black holes and their accretion disks. Participants explore the nature of these observations, the interpretation of visual data, and the technological developments that have enabled such discoveries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that black holes are surrounded by accretion disks, which glow due to internal collisions, allowing for indirect observation of black holes.
  • One participant explains that the Event Horizon Telescope captured an image of a black hole's accretion disk, emphasizing that the black hole itself is not visible but is inferred from the light it obstructs.
  • Another participant mentions that recent instruments have detected gravitational waves from colliding black holes, indicating that while nothing escapes a black hole, their effects can still be observed.
  • Some participants argue that there has been no change in the fundamental understanding of black holes, suggesting that misunderstandings stem from misinterpretations of the data and images presented.
  • There is a discussion about the representation of black hole images, with some participants expressing concern that false color representations may mislead the public into thinking they are actual photographs.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of clarifying the nature of these images to prevent misconceptions about their accuracy and representation.
  • Another participant reflects on the broader implications of black hole research, suggesting that the ability to assert the existence of black holes is significant, despite some views that it may not have practical applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the fundamental understanding of black holes has not changed, though there are differing views on the implications of recent observations and the interpretation of visual data. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the impact of these observations on public understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in public interpretation of black hole images and the potential for misunderstanding due to the use of false colors. There is also mention of unresolved debates about the significance of black hole research in relation to broader scientific inquiries.

homerwho
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TL;DR
Black hole observations
Hello--
I have a question about space observations. It was only 4 or 5 years ago that I was taught that nothing could escape a black hole. More recently I have seen information and images of black holes. What has changed that now we have black hole obseravtions. Most recently, a black hole collision that I read.
Thanks
 
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Black holes are typically surrounded by an accretion disc, matter spinning round it as it falls in. Internal collisions in the accretion disc heat it up and it glows, and we can see that glow - although we've only managed to do so once so far. The Event Horizon Telescope picture is of the accretion disc of a super-massive black hole. The black bit in the centre is the hole itself, which you can basically see because it's obstructing the light from behind it (it's a little more sophisticated than that, but that's the gist of it).

Separately, recently we've built instruments that detect gravitational waves and not electromagnetic radiation at all. These devices have detected the gravitational wave signatures of a few colliding black holes and neutron stars. In this case, two colliding black holes spin rapidly around each other and the resulting complicated and time-varying curvature of spacetime emits little "ripples" of curvature that we pick up. The source of these ripples is the gravitational field outside the black holes, not the black holes themselves.

So what we are detecting is stuff outside black holes, but very closely associated with black holes and not explicable by any other astronomical object we are aware of. Nothing can escape a black hole, you are correct, but we can see their effects anyway.
 
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homerwho said:
Summary:: Black hole observations

More recently I have seen information and images of black holes.

and it was black ... wasn't it ? because nothing escapes the black hole

The black hole is the black bit in the middle of the "doughnut"
The orange/yellow ring is the glow from the accretion disk that @Ibix speaks of
1593158888864.png
homerwho said:
What has changed that now we have black hole obseravtions.

Nothing has changed, you misunderstood what you were looking at/reading

@Ibix gave a good account in the previous post :smile:Dave
 
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davenn said:
The orange/yellow ring is the glow from the accretion disk
Actually, it is a false colour representation of the effect of the black hole on passing microwaves. See this link for a picture of the Radiotelescope array that was used. I think it was a shame that they used red / yellow colours because people naturally assumed it was a regular photograph. This caused a lot of misunderstanding.
 
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sophiecentaur said:
Actually, it is a false colour representation of the effect of the black hole on passing microwaves. See this link for a picture of the Radio telescope array that was used. I think it was a shame that they used red / yellow colours because people naturally assumed it was a regular photograph. This caused a lot of misunderstanding.
yeah, that's was all discussed in another thread at the time. I know the colours are false colours as previously discussed, but the basics are that it is the radio emissions from the accretion disk region :smile:
 
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homerwho said:
What has changed that now we have black hole obseravtions.
As davenn said, nothing.
 
davenn said:
yeah, that's was all discussed in another thread at the time. I know the colours are false colours as previously discussed, but the basics are that it is the radio emissions from the accretion disk region :smile:
I was sure I knew you knew. :smile: But it really is important that those images should be accompanied with some sort of caveat to counteract the temptation to think of them as real colours. After all, without actually knowing, those rings of colour could very easily be interpreted wrongly. (And they are, on a daily basis)
phinds said:
As davenn said, nothing.
We should be careful here, too. Nothing has actually changed as a result of our ability to assert (to a reasonable level of certainty) that the Big Bang is the right version of history and that goes for most of Cosmology. There are a lot of Angels on Pinhead studies which are intellectually satisfying but which will never put bread on the table or cure Civid-19.

I think that some sort of proof about the presence and extent of black holes is actually worth a lot more than "nothing". But then, solving the Guardian Crossword is not actually worth a lot either, in many opinions.
 

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