It's possible. One eyewitness's observation:One picture that says "the beginning of the debris" shows debris on the rocks at the water's edge, did the plane first hit the rocks? It looks that way. (picture #11 in lisab's link)
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/06/19324552-pillars-of-smoke-several-flips-witnesses-recount-scene-at-san-francisco-plane-crash?lite [Broken]Stefanie Turner was walking to her hotel on the waterfront across from the runway at San Francisco International Airport when she saw a landing plane coming in at a bad angle, its tail very low.
"As we were watching, we saw the Asiana flight approaching, and we saw that the angle was wrong," she said. "The tail was too low as it was approaching.”
"The tail kind of clipped the runway. I think that’s when the tail broke off,” Turner said.
Officials say two are confirmed dead, and "upwards of 60" passengers are still unaccounted for. Yikes, that's a lot!
Weather at the time of the accident was good with light winds of 6 to 7 knots from the southwest and visibility of 10 nautical miles or more. Investigators will focus on several areas including the performance of the aircraft’s equipment, engines, systems and flight crew, as well as other factors concerning the dynamics of the approach. One item of particular focus for investigators is expected to be the status of runway approach guidance facilities. An FAA Notam (notice to airmen) for San Francisco indicates that, at the time of the accident, the instrument landing system glideslope for runway 28L was declared out of service from June 1 to Aug 22.
And the reason for that, ironically, is because the ILS beacons are being relocated, to move the touchdown point further inland along the runway and reduce the risk of this sort of accident happening.An FAA Notam (notice to airmen) for San Francisco indicates that, at the time of the accident, the instrument landing system glideslope for runway 28L was declared out of service from June 1 to Aug 22.
That would explain the spinal injuries. Whiplash at 160+ mph.A video of the crash has surfaced. It was shot from about a mile away. You can see the plane doing a cartwheel-like reversal towards the end of its trip down the runway.
I did a google of landing speeds for 777's and it was 260 kph. (~140 knots)Anyone know how to interpret this site ?
Looks like a quick descent with last minute attempt to pull up at only 85 knots, consistent with tail down attitude stall,
but i'm no expert.
thanks spook that's a link from your AW link....
Those people do not know how to run a forum. Good god they went off topic.
RoseFlyer said:The landing speed is about 140 knots. [for a 777]
Too early to know for sure of course, but using a sort of antropic principle, logic tells us that in order for there to be an accident these days without bad weather or a major mechanical failure, it requires a spectacular level of incompetence. Remember Air France a couple of years ago? Bad weather and a minor mechanical failure, but still the primary cause of the accident was a spectacular level of incompetence. Very sad.Did they just not look at their airspeed meter or whatever it's called when stating they were going 137 knots? Because I feel like that goes beyond situational awareness to full blown incompetence
Happened to me at work one day. (Hospital, 25 years ago)...a spectacular level of incompetence. Very sad.
Seems like medical helicopters crash quite a lot! Or, maybe they just make the news more...?Happened to me at work one day. (Hospital, 25 years ago)
I worked in an office just 100 feet from the "Life Flight" landing pad on the top of the building.
Life Flight was coming in, so I peeked my head out the door, and watched the two ER guys waiting for the copter to land.
At one point, they both stopped looking out the tiny 10"x10" windows, and [STRIKE]ran[/STRIKE] bolted in my direction.
I slammed the doors shut, and heard a crash.
The copter pilot had come in too fast, and his tail rotor shredded on the edge of the rooftop.
The patient, and everyone else survived, thank god.
They brought in a crane the next day, and carried the copter away.
It seems your instinct is correctSeems like medical helicopters crash quite a lot! Or, maybe they just make the news more...?
As a result of flying ill-equipped into risky conditions, medical helicopters crash at twice the rate of other air taxis
The first images from inside the stricken Asiana Airlines Flight 214 that crashed at San Francisco's airport on Saturday have been released - as it emerged the pilot was on his maiden training flight and had only 43 hours experience at the controls of a Boeing 777.
Where was the supervision? How is it that an inexperience pilot is given the responsibility of landing such an aircraft. He apparently had never landed a 777 at SFO.The South Korean jetliner ... was flying far too slowly to reach the runway and began to stall just before the pilot gunned his engines in a futile effort to abort the landing, the National Transportation Safety Board said. ... [NTSB Chairman Deborah A.P.] Hersman said the cockpit recorder revealed that seven seconds before impact there was a call to increase the plane’s speed. Three seconds later a “stick shaker” — a violent vibration of the control yoke intended to be a warning to the pilot — indicated the plane was about to stall. Just 1 1/2 seconds before impact, a crew member called out to abort the landing?
Hersman said her agency was a long way — perhaps months — from reaching a conclusion on what caused the crash. But with Asiana insisting there was no mechanical failure, the data from the flight recorders showing the plane far below appropriate speed and the fact that the pilots were controlling the plane in what is called a “visual approach,” the available evidence Sunday suggested the crew was at fault.
:surprisedPerhaps adding to the pilot's difficulties was the fact that he had little experience landing at the San Fran airport. Hyo Min Lee told the Times that Lee Gang-guk had previously landed there but "not much" with the Boeing 777. She wouldn't specify exactly what that meant. Lee Hyomin, meanwhile, told the AP that Lee Gang-guk had never landed a 777 at SFO before.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/2-killed-182-hospitalized-as-s-korean-jet-crash-lands-in-san-francisco/2013/07/07/4d8c5e9c-e705-11e2-aa9f-c03a72e2d342_story.html?hpid=z1“We’re not talking about a few knots here or there. It was significantly below the 137 knots” required for the approach, NTSB Chairman Deborah A.P. Hersman said in describing data taken from the cockpit and flight data recorders. “We do hope to interview the crew members within the next few days.”
. . .