Buck Converter (Step Down Chopper Derivation)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Buck Converter, specifically addressing the equations involved in its operation and the physical interpretations of these equations. Participants explore the mathematical steps leading to the derivation and the implications of the signs in the equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation attempt for the Buck Converter, leading to a specific equation relating input and output voltages.
  • Another participant identifies a potential error in the equation referenced, suggesting that a minus sign is incorrectly included.
  • Some participants discuss the physical meaning of the equations, emphasizing the importance of visualizing the areas under the voltage-time graph.
  • A participant questions the reasoning behind the signs in the equations, referencing another source that derives the average voltage for the inductor as zero.
  • There is a suggestion to consider real numbers in the context of a Buck Converter to clarify the derivation process.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between voltage, time, and energy in the context of the equations.
  • Another participant provides an integral approach to demonstrate the balance of voltages over time, leading to a conclusion about the average inductor voltage.
  • A correction is made to a previous post regarding the formulation of an equation, indicating ongoing refinement of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the presence of the minus sign in the equations and the interpretation of the areas under the voltage-time graph. The discussion remains unresolved as different interpretations and methods are presented without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources and methods for deriving the equations, indicating potential limitations in understanding the assumptions behind the equations and the definitions used in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals studying power electronics, specifically those interested in the operation and derivation of Buck Converters, as well as those exploring the mathematical and physical principles underlying these devices.

jaus tail
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Hi,
I'm studying Choppers and I'm struggling with derivation of Buck Converter.
upload_2018-1-3_10-44-20.png

As per equation 13.3 if I solve it ahead I get
Vs D T - Vo D T = - Vo T + Vo D T
Solving this ahead I get
Vs (D T ) = Vo (-T + DT + DT)
Vs (DT) = Vo(2DT - T)
Vs D = Vo (2D - 1)
Vo / Vs = D/(2D - 1)
Not sure how to go ahead from here to reach equation 13.4
 

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There is an error in 13.3. There is no minus sign in front of the Vo on the right-hand side.

You can catch these kinds of errors by visualizing what the equations are telling us physically.
 
But the graph also has - Vo.
Physically area means integrating of V and t.
 
The areas are equal. You can sum them to zero, one contributing positive, the other contributing negative. If they are on opposite sides of the equal sign they will both share the same sign (otherwise they aren't equal).
 
the_emi_guy said:
If they are on opposite sides of the equal sign they will both share the same sign (otherwise they aren't equal).

This is what I don't understand. If they are on opposite side why will both share same sign. Negative Y-axis has negative numbers.
Other book said average voltage for inductor is zero and then they've derived for step down chopper. So I got that through that method.
Like:
V(L during storing) + V(L during releasing) = 0
So (Vs - Vo) Ton - Vo * Toff = 0
This gives derivation.
 
As I said in my first post, you need to see the physical meaning of these equations.

Try putting in real numbers: Say it is a buck regulator dropping 10V down to 1V. Thus Vs = +10V and Vo=+1V.
Where does that lead?
 
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Sorry I'm not getting it.
I think it can be
Energy store = energy released.
When energy is being stored(load) then input(current entering) is positive terminal. When energy is being released(source) then output(current leaving) is considered positive terminal (kinda like KVL convention)
Thus: (Vs - Vo)Ton = Vo(Toff)

But why V times T and why not V2? Energy is proportional to Voltage square divide by resistance times time.
 
So in steady state, the average inductor voltage is zero. Which means that the sum of the red area + the blue area is zero i.e. $$V_L = \frac{1}{T_s}\int_0^{T_s}v_L(t)dt = 0 $$
Solving the integral we get, which is easy if you look at the figure below:
$$\underbrace{(V_s-V_o)DT_s}_{\text{red area}}+\underbrace{(-V_0)(1-D)T_s}_{\text{blue area}} = 0$$
upload_2018-1-4_14-2-50.png
Then solving as you did in post #1 yields eq. 13.4.

So I am not sure why they included the minus sign in eq. 13.3 as the_emi_guy pointed out in post #2, other than causing confusion.
If you don't know why, the average inductor voltage in steady state has to be zero, look here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-inductors-follow-a-volt-second-balance-principle
 

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Just a correction to my post #8, second equation, should be: $$\frac{1}{T_s}\left[(V_s-V_o)DT_s + (-V_o)(1-D)T_s\right]$$ and not $$(V_s-V_o)DT_s+ (-V_o)(1-D)T_s$$
 
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  • #10
Thanks. Got it.
 
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