Calculating Displacement with Air Drag: A Differential Equation Approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the displacement of a sphere subjected to a force and air drag, modeled by a differential equation. Participants explore the implications of drag forces on acceleration and displacement, addressing both theoretical and mathematical aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a formula for displacement based on a force and drag, but questions its correctness and seeks help with solving the differential equation.
  • Another participant argues that the initial displacement formula is incorrect due to the non-constant nature of acceleration influenced by drag, suggesting a different approach using a scalar differential equation.
  • A third participant provides a solution for the integral involved in the differential equation, aiming to derive an expression for displacement over time.
  • There is a correction regarding the interpretation of the integral and the nature of the quadratic drag force, with some participants noting the difference between -cv|v| and -cv^2.
  • Discussion includes considerations of how drag forces should be modeled in different scenarios, such as projectiles in a gravitational field.
  • Participants express varying opinions on the appropriateness of using absolute values in drag force equations and the implications for calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of drag forces and the resulting equations of motion. There is no consensus on a single approach or solution, as multiple models and interpretations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the quadratic drag law may lead to complex solutions, and the discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the nature of forces and velocities involved.

Espen
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This is not a homework problem, just an idea I had.

If we have a sphere which is being accelerated in space by a force \vec{F} and we take the drag into account, what would the displacement be after t seconds? If the drag force is \vec{D}=-c_1v-c_2v^2, then the acceleration would be \vec{a}=\frac{\vec{F}+\vec{D}}{m} \,,\, a=\frac{F-c_1v-c_2v^2}{m} such that the displacement s=\frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{F-c_1v-c_2v^2}{m}\right)t^2. Is this correct? Could someone help me solve this differential equation, if it has a solution?

Thanks for any help.
 
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No, that's not the correct formula for the displacement. The well-known s=\frac{1}{2}at^{2} holds only if the acceleration is constant. In this case, the acceleration is a quadratic function of velocity, so we have one scalar differential equation:
a=\frac{dv}{dt}=A-Bv-Cv^{2}
where A= F/m, B=C1/m and C=C2/m are constants. The equation can be solved using separation of variables, as
(1) \int dt=\int\frac{dv}{A-Bv-Cv^{2}}

I can solve this easily if either B or C is equal to zero.
  • D=-c_{1}v
    Then by solving (1), and then another integration with respect to time, we get (for v(0) = 0)
    s(t)=\frac{F}{c_{1}}\left(t+\frac{exp(-\frac{c_{1}}{m}t)-1}{\frac{c_{1}}{m}}\right)
    where s(t) is the displacement after time t.
  • D=-c_{2}v^{2}

    v_{m}=\sqrt{\frac{F}{c_{2}}}
    is the terminal velocity (where D=F). Then using partial fraction decomposition on (1), integration and then another integration with recpect to time, we get (again for zero velocity at the begining):
    s(t)=\frac{v_{m}m}{\sqrt{Fc_{2}}}ln cosh\left(t\frac{\sqrt{Fc_{2}}}{m}\right)
    where s(t) is the displacement at time t.

I'm too lazy at the moment to solve the problem for generally non-zero C1 and non-zero C2, which should be possible, but some difficulties might be encountered when inverting the function. I hope you got the picture how it works. Also, you can use numerical solution of the equation, which is the common approach in physics.

And finally, I apologize for any inconvenience caused by my English or incorrect English math terms.
 
I solved the integral to

\int \frac{dv}{A-Bv-Cv^2}=-\frac{2\tan^{-1}\left(\frac{B+2Cv}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}\right)}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}, so then t=-\frac{2\tan^{-1}\left(\frac{B+2Cv}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}\right)}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}

Working with this, I get that

v=\frac{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}\tan\left(\frac{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}{2}t\right)-B}{2C}

If this is correct, I want to integrate it in order to get an expression for the displacement over time.

s=\int \frac{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}{2C}\cdot\tan\left(\frac{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}{2}t\right)-\frac{B}{2C}\rm{d}t

I will simplify it be setting \frac{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}{2}=k_1 and get

s=\frac{k_1}{C}\cdot\int\tan\left(k_1\cdot t\right)\rm{d}t-\int\frac{B}{2C}\rm{d}t=\frac{k_1}{C}\left(-\frac{\log\left(\cos\left(k_1t\right)\right)}{k_1}\right)-\frac{B}{2C}t+s_0

How does this look?
 
Espen said:
t=-\frac{2\tan^{-1}\left(\frac{B+2Cv}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}\right)}{\sqrt{-B^2-4AC}}
By tan^{-1} you mean tanh^{-1}, right? Also note that the expression \sqrt{-B^2-4AC} would be imaginary, since constants A, B and C are positive.
My solution of the integral is:

t=\frac{1}{\sqrt{B^2+4AC}}ln\left(\frac{\sqrt{B^2+4AC}+B+2Cv}{\sqrt{B^2+4AC}-B-2Cv}\right)

which could be written like yours considering the fact that:
\frac{1}{2}ln\left(\frac{1+x}{1-x}\right)=tanh^{-1}

The rest seems fine, it is even consistent with my solution for B=0.
 
Last edited:
Do remember, though, that the proper quadratic law for the air drag is -cv|v|, rather than -cv^{2} for some constant c.
 
arildno said:
Do remember, though, that the proper quadratic law for the air drag is -cv|v|, rather than -cv^{2} for some constant c.
But since the drag force acts in opposite direction to the velocity, for an accelerating force F we can use scalar equations with F_{d}=-cv^{2}. So the above calculations are correct.
 
Well, that would depend upon the problem you were to model with this.
If you think of, say, launched projectile problem within a constant gravity field, then the general form is necessary.

The force law on the way up (velocity "positive") wll go as -cv^2, whereas on its way down (velocity "negative") as +cv^2.
 
The better general formula then would be
\vec{F_{d}}=-cv^{2}\vec{\hat{v}},
where \vec{\hat{v}} is a unit vector codirectional with velocity.
But anyway, with some common sense you can always decide the correct direction of the drag force, so it doesn't accelerate the projectile.
Simple }-cv^{2} is a much better function to calculate with, than some expression with an absolute value.
I agree with you and understand your point. Thanks for the comment.
 

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