Calculating Enthalpy of Reaction A+B -> C+D @ 298K & 1 atm

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the enthalpy change (ΔH) for the chemical reaction A+B -> C+D at standard conditions (298K and 1 atm). Participants explore the relationship between enthalpy, temperature, and the nature of the reactants and products, as well as the implications of state functions in thermodynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why ΔH cannot be assumed to be zero for the reaction, noting that enthalpy is a state function dependent on temperature.
  • Another participant argues against the assumption that ΔH can be zero, stating that ΔH can be positive, negative, or zero, but it is unlikely to be exactly zero.
  • A participant clarifies that while internal energy (U) depends solely on temperature for ideal gases, enthalpy (H) also depends on pressure and volume, leading to different considerations.
  • Another participant explains that enthalpy for a solution of ideal gases depends not only on temperature but also on the enthalpies of the individual species involved in the reaction.
  • One participant provides a formula for enthalpy change in an isothermal process, which is challenged as being applicable to isobaric processes instead.
  • A later reply discusses the standard enthalpy of reaction and emphasizes that it is influenced by the specific chemical species and their quantities, not just the thermodynamic state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of enthalpy change for the reaction, with no consensus reached on whether ΔH can be assumed to be zero or the implications of enthalpy as a state function.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the need for extensive tables of heats of formation and the importance of considering the specific chemical species involved, indicating limitations in the assumptions made about enthalpy changes.

susdu
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Given some chemical reaction, A+B -> C+D (all are ideal gases) that occures in 298K and 1 atm.
why can't I automatically say that ΔH=0 for this reaction?

I know that enthalpy is a state function that is dependent on temperature alone (for an ideal gas),
and the final and initial temperature are the same.
 
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susdu said:
Given some chemical reaction, A+B -> C+D (all are ideal gases) that occures in 298K and 1 atm.
why can't I automatically say that ΔH=0 for this reaction?
Because it's false. :smile:
ΔH of a reaction can be zero, greater than zero or less than zero; anyway it's very unprobable that it's exactly zero.
I know that enthalpy is a state function that is dependent on temperature alone (for an ideal gas),
and the final and initial temperature are the same.
No, it's the internal energy U which, for an ideal gas, depends on temperature only; enthalpy doesn't depend on temperature only: H = U - P*V.
 
isn't the enthalpy change for isothermal process in ideal gas 2.5nR(Tf-Ti)
 
susdu said:
Given some chemical reaction, A+B -> C+D (all are ideal gases) that occures in 298K and 1 atm.
why can't I automatically say that ΔH=0 for this reaction?

I know that enthalpy is a state function that is dependent on temperature alone (for an ideal gas),
and the final and initial temperature are the same.
For a solution of ideal gaseous chemical species, enthalpy depends not only on temperature but also on the enthalpies of the individual chemical species at that temperature. If A and B disappear and are replaced by C and D, since the ideal gas enthalpies of pure A, B, C, and D differ at the same temperature, there will be a change in enthalpy (or heat has to be added or removed to maintain the same temperature) when A and B react to form C and D. We have extensive tables of the heats of formation of chemical species at a reference temperature and at ideal gas pressures to enable us to calculate the heats of reactions.
 
Thanks for the clear explanation, feels like a stone choked down :)
 
lightarrow said:
H = U - P*V.
Sorry, H = U + P*V
 
susdu said:
isn't the enthalpy change for isothermal process in ideal gas 2.5nR(Tf-Ti)
This is the enthalpy variation for an isobar process, not isothermal. However, as Chestermiller said, the enthalpy *of reaction* is another thing because it doesn't refer simply to the thermodynamical state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_enthalpy_of_reaction

<<The standard enthalpy of reaction (denoted ΔrH⊖) is the enthalpy change that occurs in a system when one mole of matter is transformed by a chemical reaction under standard conditions.>>

"Standard conditions" means that the initial and final states are the same.

Example: 1 mole of H2 and 1 mole of Cl2 are inside a cylynder with a piston at P = 101325 Pa and T = 25°C. Then they are ignited with a spark and react:

H2 + Cl2 → 2HCl

then you let the gas expand at constant pressure and temperature, and you measure the heat exchanged with the environment; you notice the system has given heat to the environment. Since, at constant pressure, the enthalpy variation equals the heat given to the system, it means the system's entalpy has decreased. Since you also have kept the temperature constant, it means that you have kept standard conditions, so the enthalpy variation is exactly the enthalpy of the reaction, which is negative in this case.

For this reason enthalpy in general doesn't depend on the state only (the initial and the final states are the same by definition, in this case) but also on the chemical species present and the number of moles of them.
 

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