Calculating Permutations: Understanding the Concept and Solving Examples

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of permutations and combinations, specifically in the context of forming groups and understanding the reasoning behind counting arrangements. The scope includes theoretical understanding and problem-solving examples related to permutations and combinations in combinatorial mathematics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks about the number of permutations of the letters ABCDEFGH that contain the string ABC, seeking clarification on the reasoning behind the answer of 720.
  • Another participant explains that treating ABC as an indivisible block allows for the calculation of permutations as 6! = 720, considering the blocks ABC, D, E, F, G, and H.
  • A different participant introduces a new problem regarding forming a committee of six members from a department of 10 men and 15 women, emphasizing the requirement for more women than men.
  • This participant notes that the problem involves combinations rather than permutations and outlines a potential approach using combinations, but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their calculations.
  • Another participant suggests categorizing the committee arrangements into three types based on gender distribution: 4 women and 2 men, 5 women and 1 man, and 6 women, proposing to find the number of combinations for each arrangement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to categorize the committee arrangements based on gender, but there is no consensus on the correctness of the initial approach to the problem involving combinations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of permutations and combinations, and the calculations presented depend on the specific gender distribution requirements, which may not be fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in combinatorial mathematics, particularly those studying permutations and combinations in a classroom or self-study context, may find this discussion beneficial.

n00neimp0rtnt
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How many permutations of the letters ABCDEFGH contain the string ABC?

This is an example problem in my book, and the answer is 6! = 720. Could someone please explain to me the reasoning behind this (my book does a poor job explaining)? And would this reasoning apply if the string to be found was, say, just AB?
 
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Since ABC has appear just like that you can treat ABC as an indivisible block just like the other letters so that you have ABC, D, E, F, G and H, i.e. 6 blocks in all to find permutations for, which is 6! = 720.
 
OK, I see now. Thank you. Here's another problem I'm stuck on:

A department contains 10 men and 15 women. How many ways are there to form a committee with six members if it must have more women than men?

What I figure out so far is that this would be a combination, not a permutation. If gender was not a concern, it could just simply be C(25, 6). Since there must be MORE women than men, there are gender possibilities: WWWWWW, WWWWWM, WWWWMM. At first glance, it looks like you might be able to just half the amount of answers, but the amount of women and men are not equal. I tried an approach like this:

C(10, 2) + C(10, 1) + C(13, 4) + C(13, 5) + C(13, 6)

but I'm not sure if this is correct.*C(n, r) = n!/(r!*(n-r)!)
this is the combination theorem for number of r-combinations of a set with n elements.
 
Given the restrictions, the committee must fall into one of three types:
4 women, 2 men
5 women, 1 man
6 women.
Find the number of combinations for each of the three committee arrangements and add them.
 

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