Can a 3-Space Be Isotropic About Two Distinct Points Without Being Homogeneous?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a connected 3-space can be isotropic about two distinct points without being homogeneous. Participants explore theoretical implications and counterexamples, specifically considering the properties of the 3-dimensional sphere.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Laura questions the validity of an exercise that asserts a connected 3-space cannot be isotropic about two distinct points without being homogeneous, proposing the 3-sphere as a counterexample.
  • Laura suggests that it is possible to have a matter distribution that is radially symmetric around two antipodal points on the sphere without being homogeneous.
  • Christian asks for a proof supporting the claim that if the universe were isotropic about three separate points, it must be homogeneous.
  • A participant proposes that visualizing the example on the 3-sphere is challenging and suggests creating an explicit expression for a scalar field that meets the isotropy condition without homogeneity.
  • The same participant notes a potential confusion regarding the nature of rotations around the antipodal points on the 3-sphere compared to the 2-sphere.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the exercise's validity and the implications of isotropy and homogeneity, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of isotropy and homogeneity, as well as the assumptions made about the nature of rotations in different dimensional spaces.

lark
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http://camoo.freeshell.org/27.16wrong.pdf"

Mistake by the author?

Laura

Latex source below for quoting purposes but the .pdf may've been edited since then.

Exercise 27.16 asks you to show why a connected 3-space can't be
isotropic about 2 distinct points without being homogeneous.

Counterexample, though. Suppose the space is $S^3$, the
3-dimensional sphere. You could think of it as the equation for
$x^2+y^2+z^2+w^2=1$.

Then let the 2 separate points be antipodal points on the sphere. For
example $x=(1,0,0,0)$ and $-x=(-1,0,0,0)$.

You could have a matter distribution that was radially symmetric
around both of these points, because a rotation around x is also a
rotation around $-x$! But it doesn't have to be homogeneous. The
matter density could go up with distance from x or $-x$, up to the
"equator" $y^2+z^2+w^2=1$.

Am I missing something, or is this exercise just wrong?
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However if the universe were isotropic about 3 separate points, then it has to be homogeneous!

Laura
 
lark said:
However if the universe were isotropic about 3 separate points, then it has to be homogeneous!

Laura

Do you know a proof for this?

Christian
 
One trivial way is to constrain the space to be flat, but that's not what your getting at here :wink:. I'm still trying to visualize your example but failing. I can see a 2-sphere being isotropic around two poles and not homogeneous, but I'm having trouble with the 3-sphere. Maybe it would be fruitful to try to come up with an explicit expression for a scalar field on the 3-sphere that would satisfy isotropy around two points without being homogeneous and see if you can do it. That might either prove you right or the problem right. I am not sure if a rotation about (-1,0,0,0) is the same as a rotation about (1,0,0,0).

In the two sphere picture the rotations are the same because you are basically spinning a globe on its axis so the rotation isn't a general rotation about a point but one around an axis.
 

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