Can a Toroidal Inductance Generator Really Output Five Times Its Input Energy?

[magnetic-man]

Ive made an experimental generator built loosely of the Faraday flashlight technology. Rather than a linear air coil using a reciprocating magnet I've made a toroidal coil and added magnets on the outside of the toroidal to coerce unidirectional movement of the interior magnets that match the periphery and hub magnets. The three fields will spin in as a set. 5 sets total. The magnets inside the toroidal vessel core are encapsulated in spheres and held equidistant with a brace. The exterior magnets are held in a shroud adjacent to the periphery and inside the donut hole on a hub. So three fields. The toroidal vessel core is wrapped with many layers of copper wire. A small 12 volt battery spins the "squirrel cage" or "Bunt cake pan" concentric to the toroidal.The exterior magnets coerce rotation of the interior magnets causing them to rotate inside the copper wire wound toroidal.
A) What's the best method of testing the output of this generator.
B) What would the wave form look like?
c) Would the magnets cancel each other out and give me zero volts?
d) What magnetic alignment is recommended? I have S-N(shroud) S-N(interior) S-N(hub) so they all attract each other.
Note: I've designed it so that I can change the alignment of the magnets to be configured any which way.
Any help would be appreciated. This is experimental so feel free to suggest anything.
(except giving up)

 

[berkeman]

Ive made an experimental generator built loosely of the Faraday flashlight technology. Rather than a linear air coil using a reciprocating magnet I've made a toroidal coil and added magnets on the outside of the toroidal to coerce unidirectional movement of the interior magnets that match the periphery and hub magnets. The three fields will spin in as a set. 5 sets total. The magnets inside the toroidal vessel core are encapsulated in spheres and held equidistant with a brace. The exterior magnets are held in a shroud adjacent to the periphery and inside the donut hole on a hub. So three fields. The toroidal vessel core is wrapped with many layers of copper wire. A small 12 volt battery spins the "squirrel cage" or "Bunt cake pan" concentric to the toroidal.The exterior magnets coerce rotation of the interior magnets causing them to rotate inside the copper wire wound toroidal.
A) What's the best method of testing the output of this generator.
B) What would the wave form look like?
c) Would the magnets cancel each other out and give me zero volts?
d) What magnetic alignment is recommended? I have S-N(shroud) S-N(interior) S-N(hub) so they all attract each other.
Note: I've designed it so that I can change the alignment of the magnets to be configured any which way.
Any help would be appreciated. This is experimental so feel free to suggest anything.
(except giving up)

Welcome to the PF.

I think that, at the very least, you will want to break up your solenoid coil into a number of smaller sub-coils, with the length of each sub-coil about equal to the spacing of the inner magnet balls. Then you should be able to connect them in parallel (maybe in certain pairs), depending on what the flux changes are like. At least intuitively for me, if you leave the solenoid as one long coil, I do not think you will get a net output. The total flux change will net to zero for the whole solenoid. But it seems that if you break it up so that subcoils have the flux through them changing as the ball goes by, then you may be able to get some net AC voltages out of the sub-coils.

The arrangement does not seem very optimum for converting mechanical energy, but it's an interesting variation that should be fun to experiment with.

 

[magnetic-man]

Magnetic Induction in a copper wire toroidal

Thanks Berkeman for your response. I appreciate the input.
The things that make magnetic induction more efficient are
A) amount of copper wire
B) the speed at which you change the magnetic field
C) the strength of the magnetic field

Do you think my Toroidal Inductance Generator will be more efficient than an alternator or a wind generator that use field windings(less wire) slower speeds and less flux? Since I am using more wire, faster speeds, and greater magnetic field strength?
I am also using three rotating magnetic fields as opposed to one in the other examples.
The Faraday flashlight which I loosely based the design is an air coil (solenoid) too and doesn't get a zero reading over the entire length.
Why would mine (a circular air coil) get a zero volt reading and not a straight air core solenoid?
Electricity is induced in copper wire by a changing magnetic field. Does that mean changing from no field to either north of south pole OR changing from north to south. I believe its the latter. I could be wrong.
Any Ideas? You obviously know you stuff.
Thanks Magnetic-man

 

[magnetic-man]

I'm winding copper wire around a hollow plastic toroidal to make a coil. I am moving 3 magnetic fields proximate to the copper wire coil. I want to get the most current possible from the coil Should I wind the wire as one single wire layered several times? Should I wrap each layer the opposite direction? Should I wire it in layered individual segments then wire them all together in parallel?
Should I wind it with field windings bent around the circumference 180* each side? What would be the most effective method? Something I've not mentioned? Thanks for any answers I can get. Magnetic_man

 

[berkeman]

(merged 3 threads into one...)

 

[JohnCBriggs]

Mr. Axford is asking about the best arrangement for this generator, but perhaps he should really be asking about the Law of Conservation of Energy. Looking elsewhere on the web we see much posted by Mr Axford.
One post Mr Axford made summarizes the idea
"...Toroidal Inductance Generator.
Using this technology we are capable of generating 500% more electricity than it takes to operate the generating mechanism. This breakthrough technology will change the way we generate electricity forever."

OK so here we have a clear violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy. The system takes in 1 unit of energy and produces 5 units of energy. Those 4 units of energy come from nowhere. This is not allowed by the Law of Conservation of Energy.

In the current post here, it is pretty clear that Mr. Axford does not understand magnetics or electronics very well. He is asking for help in measuring the electric output of the "Toroidal Inductance Generator". He is also trying to figure out the correct geometry of the magnets, N-S, S-N, etc. Meaning that he has yet to figure out the most basic parts of his design.
Sadly this posting was made August 17, 2009, about two weeks ago. This suggests that Mr. Axford is currently quite confused about the technology he is working with and unlikely to succeed.
Despite these issues, he is advertising all over the web looking for investors, including unlikely places like craigslist. I know this doesn't prove anything about the technical viability of the idea, but just something to consider.

A quick look at Mr. Axford background shows that he is a mechanical designer (not an engineer). This is someone that can generally create things from purchased parts, but probably does not have the background to create some new piece of technology. Of course, there are always exceptions, but he clearly has no science or engineering training. I think this has caused him to fall into this trap of believing he has something of great value. His wonderful drive and ambition is really what he has of value, because the Toroidal Inductance Generator is not going to put out 500% more energy than comes into it. Too bad he is spending his energy on this project rather than one that can succeed.

Later
John C. Briggs