I Can Air Resist a Piston? A Serious Discussion

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the dynamics of a piston moving through a long, open-ended tube and whether the force required to maintain its speed varies with time. Participants argue that as the piston moves, it must accelerate the air in front of it, leading to an increasing force requirement even at constant velocity. The concept of a steady state is debated, with some asserting that it cannot be achieved due to the continuous accumulation of air that needs to be moved. The implications of pressure waves and their effects on air movement are also explored, suggesting that the air cannot remain stationary while the piston moves. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the complexities of fluid dynamics in this scenario and the need for further mathematical analysis.
  • #101
Sailor Al said:
All I can say is, check your physics textbooks.
Looking at a 2012 edition, the couple of pages in Freedman do not address shock velocity. You are reading in your own biases.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #102
Sailor Al said:
But if there's a small region of compressed air in front of the object, then in that compressed region the speed of sound will be higher than the speed of sound in the surrounding air. The shock wave may be travelling faster there but it's still Mach 1.0 in that medium.
The air in front of the blunt object is not just compressed but also moving along with the object, so the speed of the local medium adds to the speed through the local medium (see Galilean Transformation). But whatever the contributions here are, the final result is that the bow shock right in front of the supersonic blunt object moves at the same speed as the object, and stays at a constant distance ahead of it. So it will pass you before the object hits you.
 
  • Like
Likes weirdoguy, renormalize and jbriggs444
  • #103
Sailor Al said:
By "shocks" do you mean "shock waves?
According to my Physics text* :
"A shock wave is produced continuously by any object that moves through the air at supersonic speed"
As noted my piston is not supersonic.
And BTW, I think the Wikipedia page is incorrect when it claims, in the opening sentence:
"In physics, a shock wave (also spelled shockwave), or shock, is a type of propagating disturbance that moves faster than the local speed of sound in the medium."
The speed of sound is a medium is the speed that a pressure wave travels in that medium. A shockwave is a pressure wave - it travels at the speed of sound in that medium, not "faster than the local speed of sound in the medium."
So much misinformation!😒
*Young H. Freedman R. (2018) University Physics with Modern Physics, 15th Edition , Sears & Zemansky
I've provided you with several references that corroborate my analysis and my claims. They've been supported by 100 years of aerodynamics observations/experiments and have contributed to the designs of aircraft that fly millions of miles per year.

If you want to be a skeptic in the face of a preponderance of evidence, be my guest. I will not be providing further guidance for someone who simply refuses to engage seriously.
 
  • Like
Likes cjl, russ_watters, berkeman and 2 others
  • #104
boneh3ad said:
I will not be providing further guidance for someone who simply refuses to engage seriously.
And with that, this thread is done.
 
  • Like
Likes weirdoguy
Back
Top